Catherine Langman:
Well, hello there. It’s Catherine Langman here, back with another episode of the Productpreneur Success Podcast. Today, on the show, I welcome my guest, Rhianna Knight, who is the founder of the brand team, Timbuktu. Team Timbuktu is a brand of sustainable active-wear and outdoor gear. And like all good ideas, she had her idea for this brand when she needed something herself. And what’s that phrase? Necessity is the mother of all invention. So, Rhianna, she shares her story of how she came about creating this idea, but she has been able to create this range of clothing that is using recycled plastics and other materials to help produce fabric that is completely sustainable. And she’s been out to build up a brand and a business around values of environmentally friendly operations and sustainability and all of that good stuff.
Catherine Langman:
I remember when I started my first business back in 2006, I think it was, it really hard to find ways of being more sustainable. We were already a reusable product, but these days, there’s so many options to be able to operate in a more sustainable way, whether it’s using compostable satchels for shipping out your orders and a whole lot more. But we hear all about Rhianna’s story from conceptualizing her idea four years ago to the thriving business that she is now. And she’s very generous in sharing a lot of her journey and really sharing all of her stories. So, tune in and listen to the interview.
Catherine Langman:
Welcome to the show, Rhianna, it’s awesome to have you here.
Rhianna Knight:
Thanks so much for having me, Catherine.
Catherine Langman:
So good. And so, we’re going to have a bit of a conversation and hear all about your story behind your brand, Team Timbuktu. And I’d love to invite you to kick us off by just telling a little bit about your background. And the origin story that led you to launching your business.
Rhianna Knight:
Yeah, absolutely. So, I’ve mentioned that I’m the founder of Team Timbuktu. We’re a sustainable outdoors brand. So, my background has always been in fashion. Previously, working for a snowboarding apparel company. Managing their design and production to create the snowboarding pants and hoodies, and beanies and waterproof gloves, and all those kind of fun things. And I’ve always been the outdoorsy person. And so, whilst it was an incredible opportunity at the snowboarding company. And I was there for a couple of years. I learnt so much. Incredible professional development as well. At the end of the day, if I never went snowboarding again, I wouldn’t really care. I’d just go and find a really fun to do.
Rhianna Knight:
So, I love getting outdoors and doing things. But I’m not particularly attached to any particular activity or thing. So, I thought there was just a real gap in the market for a women’s focused sustainable outdoor brand, that encouraged and inspired women to get outdoors without feeling like you have to go for a two week hike with a super heavy backpack. And you have to know all the things, and do all the things. And how come this jacket costs $700? And there’s just so much jargon, and I feel like perhaps alienating messaging out there. Like there wasn’t a brand that welcomed me and encouraged me to get out and do whatever I wanted, or whatever I enjoyed. So, I thought, “Okay, I’m going to go ahead and make this. How does one start a brand?”
Catherine Langman:
Exactly. How does one? So, when was that, that you decided to make that jump to becoming your own brand owner?
Rhianna Knight:
I think it was about four years ago now. So, it kind of culminated, I was in South America on a backpacking trip. So, I had spent two months at elevation. And doing some incredible hikes around Peru, Chile and …
Catherine Langman:
I’ve always wanted to go there.
Rhianna Knight:
… Bolivia. And it was just phenomenal. It was one of the most beautiful places in the world. And yeah, just felt so frustrated with what I was wearing.
Catherine Langman:
Oh, no.
Rhianna Knight:
And because my background is in fashion, it’s like I know just because a particular item of clothing is waterproof or has zip off pant legs or whatever it is, it can still fit well. And it can still look nice. But I just thought there were no options out there that kind of aligned on style and sustainability. And then, the function and all those kind of things. So, at that point it was like, “Hang on, I know how to make the product. And I can’t find a brand out there that would’ve fitted me for like the products that I needed for this particular trip.” And so, then when I came back from that trip, I’m like, “Okay. I’m going to see if other people are feeling the same way.” Ran a crowd funding campaign. And apparently, there’s a few others out there that also have frustrations.
Catherine Langman:
That’s so cool. So, you had the idea because of your own personal needs. And that really triggered that creative process of conceptualization. And then, you confirmed it with a crowdfunding campaign.
Rhianna Knight:
Yeah, absolutely.
Catherine Langman:
That’s cool. And so, it’s sounds to me and from what I can see of your brand, that you have some very strong brand values that you’ve really built into the brand as well. So, what makes them so important to you?
Rhianna Knight:
This is such a great question, and one that I feel like I’m always perplexed by. Because the way that I choose to operate the business, is just common sense to me. Like it’s my personal values as an extension into the business. Yet a lot of people are like, “Oh, well, how come you chose sustainable fabric? Or how come you’re planting trees? Or how come you’re doing all of these things?” And I’m like, “It makes sense.” My family used to run a business that has a direct negative impact on people or planet. Or why wouldn’t you try and make people feel good and be inclusive? Which can never be achieved, but always striving to do better and be more. And try and be the best, most responsible business you can be. So, it just made sense to me.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I do think that there is evidence pointing towards more and more consumers voting with their spending dollar to find brands like yours, who operate in this way. But there’s so many that don’t.
Rhianna Knight:
Yeah. There’s definitely an increase in those shoppers and people that are looking for more sustainable and ethical purchases. But then, on the flip side, [inaudible 00:05:11] fashion is growing still at an alarming rate. So, there is some change. But there is so much change that still needs to happen in the industry.
Catherine Langman:
Yes. Yes, we all need to be encouraging that with our spending habits more and more.
Rhianna Knight:
Totally.
Catherine Langman:
So, running a sustainable business, especially when it’s a physical product business and we’re needing to, obviously we’re making the products and there’s the manufacturing process there. And there’s also shipping things out, and the packaging, and all of that kind of stuff. So, when it comes to running a sustainable business, what are some of these challenges that you’ve had to overcome? And how did you go about that? Might be inspiring for some of our listeners.
Rhianna Knight:
I think I was fortunate that my background was within fashion. So, I understood how to make product and all the tiny little lens, large complex steps that are involved in that manufacturing process. So, I knew about sampling and the grading. So, if you’re making a size small and then you go to make a size medium, maybe you might add 2.5 centimeters additional across the bust. But maybe you only need to add 0.3 centimeters additional in length. So, there’s all those tiny little details that I’m sure most people have never thought about before. But there’s just so many little things that you need to know, that can make a huge in difference as to if the T-shirt fits beautifully, or it looks like a potato sack.
Catherine Langman:
Exactly.
Rhianna Knight:
And so, then, was comfortable with the sampling process, the bulk production process, working with fabric mills environment manufacturers. When I was at this particular snowboarding company, they were changing their supply chain to be more ethical and sustainable. So, I had learnt a lot about certifications when working with factories. And also, fabrics. Ensuring that they are indeed what they say they are. So, they’re certified post-consumer waste. Or certified organic. Or certified whatever it is. That third party certification, really important. I think especially if the manufacturers and factories that you work with, if they’re not driving distance or if they’re not even in the same country as you, hopefully you go and visit them at least once a year. But for all the days that you’re not there, it’s like I want to feel confident. So, then I can tell my community that actually yes, they are living by the same values of treating the workers the way that you’d hope and expect them to.
Rhianna Knight:
But so, I understood the products process. But I didn’t know anything at all about the finances or the marketing. So, for me, I think there’s always minimum order quantity difficulties. Unless, you have a lot of capital to start with.
Catherine Langman:
Oh, it’s the hardest thing, isn’t it?
Rhianna Knight:
So, challenging. Because especially even at this point now, we’re still a very small business. [inaudible 00:08:13] two years ago. Still very, very small in the scheme of things. So, each year we try and improve our sustainability initiatives and to see how we can improve. So, for example, [inaudible 00:08:27] over the past 12 months has been changing the percentage of products that we [inaudible 00:08:32]. Because that has an enormous carbon footprint difference. But then, a smaller one, might be changing our swing tags from cardboard to recycled cardboard. So, we can just reduce the impact that we’re having. But still at this point now, we can’t get the minimum order quantities needed to get the recycled back neck labels. That you’d have the brand name, or the size or the care instructions. Those kind of things. You just need thousands of them.
Rhianna Knight:
So, I kind of try and explain it as technically you could make it. But it would be like going to a restaurant and being like, “Hi, can I have the spaghetti. But I only want one strand of spaghetti.” They’d just laugh at you. It just doesn’t make sense for them if they’re working with people that normally order three bowls of spaghetti, if you only want one single strand.
Catherine Langman:
Yes.
Rhianna Knight:
So, always improvements to be made. But I think going in with the approach of no one is perfect, but if you’re striving to be the best you can be and you’ve had a considered approach to how you run your product and processes and supply chain, and just analyzing all elements of the business, I think is a really good start prior to starting. Or if you have an existing business. It’s like, “Okay. Who are the caterers that we work with on photo shoots?” Just all of the different things. Like who gets the cut toilet paper? Or zero co cleaning products? Or what is the best choice available to us now? And also, can we make a better choice in the future as we grow?
Catherine Langman:
And being comfortable with that gradual improvement.
Rhianna Knight:
Absolutely.
Catherine Langman:
And not letting the fact that it’s not perfect yet, kind of get in the way of moving forwards anyway.
Rhianna Knight:
Yeah. It’s definitely the [inaudible 00:10:29] of the perfection thing. Because perfection doesn’t exist. I’d love it to, but it just doesn’t.
Catherine Langman:
No, it doesn’t. And it’s definitely something that can be hard for many of us to accept.
Rhianna Knight:
Absolutely.
Catherine Langman:
I know. I have a few clients who would call themselves recovering perfectionists. Because you don’t want it to hold you back really.
Rhianna Knight:
Absolutely. And we produce the sustainability report each year, and just about to publish the second one now. And so, just going over the final draft. The final edit, and grammar and formatting and all those fun things. But already I’m like, “Oh, but there’s so much more we could add to this. It could be such a more detailed analysis. And next year we’ll be having information about our carbon footprint per product, and the overall from the business. And there could be more.” And it’s like, “Yeah, but if we don’t publish it now, it will be next year.” And then, it’s just going to be five years down the track and we never published another one again. [crosstalk 00:11:34].
Catherine Langman:
That’s an idea though. So, this report that you just mentioned, is this one of the ways that you communicate with your audience about … Because it’s really hard to talk about how good your own business is. You know, “My values are the best. And I’ve got a lot of integrity.” And all of that kind of … I mean, it just sound say bit maf when you’re trying to say it about yourself or your own business. But you still want to be able to get that across, hopefully. You want people to perceive that about your business. So, is this report …
Rhianna Knight:
Yeah, absolutely.
Catherine Langman:
… part of that?
Rhianna Knight:
Yeah. It’s a really, really instrumental part of it. Especially, because I think with sustainability within fashion, there is so much brainwashing going on. And so, some of the largest [inaudible 00:12:20] fashion companies in the world are like, “Hey, here’s a 10 piece sustainable collection.” It’s like, “What about the other, honestly, 8000 pieces you have?”
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, that’s right.
Rhianna Knight:
If they’re not sustainably and ethically made, it’s not really as sustainable as these 10 pieces are.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, exactly.
Rhianna Knight:
Whole other topic. But, yeah. Within our sustainability report, we cover the key areas that we’re focusing on. So, that’s our materials, our people, our packaging, our transportation, introducing our first steps towards offsetting and [inaudible 00:12:56]. The impacts of COVID-19. Because of course, that has a huge impact to supply chains. And there were a lot of things that unfortunately, that we didn’t implement in our last sustainability report because COVID-19 changed everything. And so, we had a lot of focus on surviving. So, we could make it to the next sustainability report.
Catherine Langman:
And you did. You’re still standing.
Rhianna Knight:
Yeah, absolutely. So happy about it. And just have that support from our community, is incredible. But then, a little bit of me is still like, “Oh, but we didn’t go and achieve x, y, z.” We did all these other incredible things. But I’m still like, “Oh, we didn’t get 11 out of 10.” You know? It’s all right though.
Catherine Langman:
Yes. Yes. Yes. There comes the Type A perfectionist we were talking about.
Rhianna Knight:
Totally.
Catherine Langman:
What are some of the other things that you do to attract and engage with your community around these, what do you call it? I mean, issues per say? But just tidbits of conversation.
Rhianna Knight:
I think building an engaging community is something I’m really excited to expand upon. Especially, in the next 12 months. I think we’ve done an all right job at the educational engagement element. But there is always so much more to improve, which I’m really excited about as well. If you look at breaking down the outdoor space, it’s a very male dominated space. A lot of people don’t feel welcome or included in the industry. For example, for the past 10 plus years I’ve been going hiking and camping, I have been since I’ve been five years old really. But a lot more over the past 10 years. And I still don’t feel included in the industry.
Rhianna Knight:
And it’s like if I’m someone that’s typically pretty confident. I typically don’t particularly care what people think about myself. Like it just doesn’t phase me. But if I still don’t feel included in that kind of industry, how is someone that’s brand new, who’s just been on their first two hour hike and they loved it. And like, “Ooh, how to find out more? Where else can I go? Do I need to bring a raincoat or a backpack?” There’s so many things to learn I think, when you’re heading outdoors for the first time. And of course, some safety information as well. But if there’s not a space where people feel comfortable to ask simple questions, which they might feel embarrassed to. There’s just so much opportunity for improvement in the space.
Rhianna Knight:
So, I’m really excited to build that out. Not exactly sure how that looks yet. But I just think there’s an incredible opportunity to make people feel included and represented.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Rhianna Knight:
Which is obviously so important to everyone, rather than just a minority.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, absolutely. Hearing you talk, just is making me want to get out there and go for a hike.
Rhianna Knight:
Let’s do it.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. And I guess keeping that focus on that sort of lifestyle. And what people want to do whilst wearing the products, rather than just talking about the products is a vastly more interesting conversation.
Rhianna Knight:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think as well, I love our products. They’re incredible quality. They’re sustainably and ethically made, and they’re great. But what excited me more rather the actual 300 grams of the particular fabric when it’s cut and sewn together, is what our community gets to do in this product. So, it’s not just a raincoat. It’s a great raincoat. But at the same time, where are you going? What are you doing? I’m so excited when we have live chat on the website and the customer’s like, “Oh, I’m going to the Three Capes Track in Tasmania. Can I wear this jacket? Is it waterproof enough?” And we just get to start talking about somebody’s trip.
Catherine Langman:
So much fun.
Rhianna Knight:
Or what adventure they’re planning on. Like, “Oh my goodness, I was there last month. I did this. It’s going to be super windy here. You’ll love this.” That’s the bit that just sparks so much joy for me.
Catherine Langman:
Oh, that’s so good. Yes, I could’ve done with one of your raincoats when I was in Hobart a couple of years ago. I didn’t know how cold it was at the top of that hill.
Rhianna Knight:
It’s so cold.
Catherine Langman:
It’s freezing. So, if you could pull out maybe one or two suggestions or pieces of advice to another business who really wants to adopt some more sustainable practices into their business but they don’t know where to start, what might you suggest?
Rhianna Knight:
A big piece of paper and a Sharpie. Start there. Because obviously, every business is so different. Are you a service based business? Are you a product based business? Is it just you or a side hustle? Do you have one employee? Is it 20 of you? What’s your scale? What are your processes? If you can try and start mapping it out, I think that’s such an important first step. So, like an easy win I think for all product based businesses, is packaging.
Catherine Langman:
Yes.
Rhianna Knight:
There are so many packaging options available. Whether recycled cardboard, or home combustible. And not single-use plastic, which is … I think I read something that it’s going to be illegal for single-use plastic packaging. [crosstalk 00:18:21].
Catherine Langman:
Well, it is illegal here in South Australia.
Rhianna Knight:
That’s fantastic. Is it?
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. I’m here in South Australia, and you can’t have single-use plastic anywhere anymore, I don’t believe. So, yeah.
Rhianna Knight:
Great.
Catherine Langman:
So, all supermarkets.
Rhianna Knight:
Very overdue.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. Good old little old Adelaide.
Catherine Langman:
[inaudible 00:18:37]. Because I know with the shopping bags at the supermarkets. That was maybe, gosh I don’t know, 12, 24 months ago or so.
Catherine Langman:
It was suggested but …
Rhianna Knight:
But then, there was a whole lot of companies that … Yeah, especially within E-commerce businesses, it’s still just wrapped in plastic.
Catherine Langman:
Huge amounts. Yeah.
Rhianna Knight:
That’s an easy win. But it totally depends. I’ve got a friend that has a communication’s agency. So, service based business. In terms of physical footprint, they really don’t have much. But in terms of like how do you run your processes? How do you do hiring? How do you make sure that’s inclusive? How do you make sure you’re not just getting someone … Do you really need someone with this particular uni degree? Or would you rather that they show initiative? Or are you being open and flexible for working mothers, or people with disabilities? Which I guess is probably a bit more vast than sustainability. But I think like how can you run a good business in all elements? So, within hiring in people, and product, and packaging. And what other businesses are you supporting when you’re working? Do you prefer to [crosstalk 00:19:55]?
Catherine Langman:
I think that’s key there. Definitely.
Rhianna Knight:
… work with women led businesses. Yeah. I think just trying to analyze for our particular product, service business. Because they do vary so much. And then, even it’s like a piece of paper that you come back to every six months or every 12 months. And you’re like, “Okay, cool. So, we worked with six photographers. And we wanted to make sure at least half of them were women.” Or just whatever targets you want. You don’t have to share it with anyone. But trying to figure out, what’s the best that we can do now? Or even, what’s a good, easy step to start with.
Catherine Langman:
[crosstalk 00:20:34].
Rhianna Knight:
Yeah. It can be very overwhelming when you’re like, “Cool, I need to change everything. But we can’t really do that to start with.
Catherine Langman:
No. Yeah, that becomes too hard.
Rhianna Knight:
Yeah.
Catherine Langman:
Everything goes in the too hard basket then. I know when I had my first business, which was a modern cloth nappy business. So, reusable products.
Rhianna Knight:
Awesome.
Catherine Langman:
Definitely the sort of product that a lot of people did feel a bit overwhelmed with. Whether they felt like they could actually do it successfully, or it can all feel like, “Oh, if I don’t do it all, then I shouldn’t do any of it.” You know? It’s not like that at all. It’s just, every little bit counts really.
Rhianna Knight:
Definitely.
Catherine Langman:
And step by step. So, great advice there. I like that. So, then, what about on the business side of things? Just how you manage and run things on a day to day? I know lots of our listeners, they always struggle with that balancing act between funding manufacturing and getting the product in stock so they can sell it. And then, managing cashflow and marketing. And all of that kind of stuff. And it is a challenge. How do you manage to balance that with Team Timbuktu?
Rhianna Knight:
I think it’s been a big process of learning, and there’s still so much more learning to do. But I think it’s figuring out what works for you. So, I think first step is figuring out how does your brain work? And how do you best operate? Are you totally creative and you create incredible products? Or beautiful marketing? Or incredible photography? Or incredible, whatever it is. But then, as soon as you open excel, your brain melts.
Catherine Langman:
Yes.
Rhianna Knight:
That’s totally fine. But just identifying that. Because otherwise if you haven’t really thought about that, you might spend 80% of your week in excel and just think, “I can’t do it. It just doesn’t work.” And it’s fine it just doesn’t work, you just need help with that. But I think being able to identify that, reduces your stress. And figures out like, “Okay. Maybe it’s better to work more [inaudible 00:22:52] so you can afford a bookkeeper. Or so you can afford a Facebook ad agency, or whatever it is. But kind of balancing it out with your strengths and [inaudible 00:23:00] your weaknesses. Because you can’t be good at everything.
Catherine Langman:
No.
Rhianna Knight:
But I think it’s something that a lot of business owners do expect. They’re like, “Oh, well, it’s just me. So, I need to be incredible at financial forecasting. And also do all product design and photography. And all of these things.
Catherine Langman:
I feel like it’s often a lot of women who put this pressure on ourselves as well.
Rhianna Knight:
Absolutely.
Catherine Langman:
That we have to be able to be ace at absolutely everything, and we can’t possibly ask for help.
Rhianna Knight:
Yeah, definitely. It’s one thing to say it, and then it’s another thing to actually do it. So, at the back of my head I’m still like, “Oh, I just wish I could learn photography. It would just save me a lot of time if I could just take a photo.” But I cannot, and I will never be able to take a photo. It’s just not in my skillset. So, I know I need to outsource that. And I’ve found a photographer who’s incredible to work, and so much fun together. She’s incredibly talented. So, it’s knowing, “Okay, I can rely on her for that. And then, I can spend my brain and energy on doing things that I’m actually good at and I actually enjoy.” Like I’m still there at the photo shoot. We had one this morning. It was amazing.
Catherine Langman:
Oh, fantastic.
Rhianna Knight:
But then, I know it’s like, “Cool, I can get into the planning of how many size smalls do we need versus mediums [inaudible 00:24:23]. Like all of these things. So, it’s just find your strengths. And then, plan accordingly. So, that can also help during the day. It’s like, “Cool, I know I really work well from eight in the morning to midday.” Plan either the thing that you don’t want to do, or the most important task for the day then. And if you know that two, three o’ clock you’re kind off with the fairies a bit, then maybe respond to emails. Or just plan your day as works best for you, rather than the way that you think that you need to. Like just because apparently we’re meant to work nine to five, if that doesn’t work for you, you shouldn’t feel guilty if you don’t do that. And maybe you work really well at eight o’ clock at night. Or maybe you want to go to that yoga class in the morning. You shouldn’t feel guilty because of these preset expectations from society about how you should run your business.
Catherine Langman:
No way.
Rhianna Knight:
I think that’s something a lot of people fall into. I’m not even sure if anyone ever said, “You must work nine to five.” But it’s just kind of this misconception that we’ve got at the back of our heads.” Where it’s, “Oh, I’m a terrible entrepreneur if I start my day at nine-thirty AM.” It’s like, “Oh, that’s a bit silly.”
Catherine Langman:
Have you enjoyed being able to set those boundaries for yourself since becoming a business owner?
Rhianna Knight:
I think only recently I’ve actually begun to set them. Because again, that another thing, it’s so easy to say. And then, actually implementing that. When I think when I first started, like, “Oh my God, I’m so excited. I’m going to work till 11 o’ clock every night.”
Catherine Langman:
You don’t want to miss an opportunity.
Rhianna Knight:
Which works for a little while. Yeah. And then, it gets to the point where it’s like, “I resent my business.” And it’s like, “It’s just me. I’m the one that’s doing it to myself. I can then go in and fix this.” So, I think it’s like the pure excitement phase. And then, moving into, “Actually, hang on. If I’m going to do this for five years, 20 years, forever, however long, I probably should enjoy it. And it probably should be a sustainable workload for myself. Rather than kind of burn out and do everything.
Catherine Langman:
That’s so true. Yep.
Rhianna Knight:
So, then, only recently, I’m like, “Okay, no work on weekends unless it’s urgent.” Or a new one for me is taking public holidays off, which probably really shouldn’t be a thing with nine to fivers. They just take them, and they enjoy them.
Catherine Langman:
That’s right.
Rhianna Knight:
But then, as a founder, I’m like, “Oh, no. But it’s a Tuesday, I should be working.” You know?
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rhianna Knight:
So, trying to figure out what works for you.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. I feel there’s probably a bit of, at least for me anyway. There was that bit of probably guilt I suppose, in letting on to other people, especially if they’re not entrepreneurs, that I don’t work 40 hours a week. I work flexible hours when I want to. Obviously, I have to still put the effort in and all of that good stuff. But yeah, there was definitely for me, a bit of ego tied up in needing people to see that I’m busy and that I’m working hard.
Rhianna Knight:
Absolutely.
Catherine Langman:
So, kind of getting past that and realizing, Well, actually, when I’m not physically looking busy, I’m still thinking about it. And planning and strategizing in my head.”
Rhianna Knight:
Oh, yeah. And you think about it all the time. It’s like when you can’t sleep or the first thing when you wake up in the morning, or when you’re on a walk. You’re just thinking about it all the time. So, if you actually thought about how many hours you’re thinking about work, it’s a lot.
Catherine Langman:
It is a lot.
Rhianna Knight:
So, it’s very fine if you have like, a just working hours. Or you just choose to have more balance or flexibility in your life, than someone who doesn’t have the choice to implement that.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Rhianna Knight:
But I think it’s like being kind to yourself.
Catherine Langman:
Definitely. Definitely.
Rhianna Knight:
Which can be difficult.
Catherine Langman:
And probably just giving yourself that space and time to recharge. Like a normal person would in a job. It does mean that you actually end up more productive and get through more, more quickly in your business, when you’re on.
Rhianna Knight:
Yeah, absolutely. But I think it’s so hard as well, I think there’s so many co-founders that are women. Or perhaps men too as well. But it’s just like you’re doing everything by yourself. And so, you probably don’t have someone every week where you’re like, “Okay. This is what we achieved last week. It was great.” Or, “We didn’t hit this, and that sucks. But that’s all right, we can change this and do that.” So, there’s like not really someone there to reflect and celebrate or commiserate.
Catherine Langman:
Bounce stuff off you.
Rhianna Knight:
So, it can be very isolating.
Catherine Langman:
It can be.
Rhianna Knight:
And so, then, yeah, you just lose perspective I think of like, “Okay, how many hours should I be working? Or have I worked too hard? Or should we be celebrating this? Or do we just let that milestone go past?” If it’s all you, it can just be like up in our head. And it’s just easy to push those big things aside.
Catherine Langman:
That’s true.
Rhianna Knight:
Which obviously, isn’t great. But then, there’s no one around you to encourage you to be like, “Hang on. You know most people take a lunch break, right?”
Catherine Langman:
That’s right. Exactly.
Rhianna Knight:
Yeah.
Catherine Langman:
So true.
Rhianna Knight:
We need those things.
Catherine Langman:
You do. You do. Definitely. So, reading between the lines, I’m assuming that the parts of your business that you find the most enjoyment from, would be that kind creative side of things, coming from that fashion background. Or is it something else?
Rhianna Knight:
[inaudible 00:29:52] half, half. I think in my head, the two for my particular business … Well, actually, probably most businesses, I think you’ve got the creative side. And then, the commercial kind of business numbers side. And I really think I’m 50/50. I think I’ve got some things that are 90% creative. And that’s so incredible. And then, I’ve got other friends that don’t own businesses, some do, and they’re just like numbers and strategy and all this good stuff that’s so useful. But you kind of can’t have one without the other.
Catherine Langman:
You definitely need both in a business. That’s for sure.
Rhianna Knight:
Yeah. And so, then I think it’s awesome to see when there are businesses that have one founder who’s really creative. And then, another founder who’s really numbers focused. Or if you don’t, then it’s knowing, “Okay, cool, I need to hire out for this. I need to get a bookkeeper. I need to get someone to help me with this particular element.” Versus, I think I’m pretty 50/50 split. Which I think is why I’ve been able to get to a particular stage without having too much external help. I could always use and would love more help. But to an extent, I love Excel and forecasting. But then, I’ll also get to a point where I’m like, “Okay. My brain is finished. I don’t get it. This is too hard. I needed someone else to help me get … if it doesn’t need to get more complex, probably not. I’m probably already over complicating it.” But it’s figuring out what do actually need to achieve, to get to this next stage of growth? Or whatever it is that we’re trying to achieve.
Rhianna Knight:
And then, at that stage, hopefully then we can bring someone else to help in a more permanent capacity. Or just introducing anyone, even on like a monthly capacity.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So, yeah, you’re definitely on both sides of the divide. I think I remember reading a book called Rocket Fuel. And it talks about how a business needs to have the visionary, so the creative person. And they call it an integrator, but essentially it’s an operations person. So, the detail, analytical side of things. So, you sound like you’ve got the skill for both. Which is fantastic.
Rhianna Knight:
A little bit. But then, also I think it’s so interesting because I’ve spent so much time over the past few years reading books and articles, and listening to podcasts. And just trying to learn as much as I can from other people that have been there, done it before. And I think all advice and stories are incredibly subjective. Like what works incredibly well for one person, might be the worst advice in the world for another person. So, sometimes you’ll look at a business and you’ll go like, “Oh, my goodness they grew so fast. And they had these particular two founders. Or had this much money. Or they did this particular approach to growth. And then, it’s like, well, if you tried it even in a different month or a different product, if you changed any variable, then it’s not going to have the same result.
Rhianna Knight:
So, I think it’s definitely inspiring listening and learning about how some businesses have grown. But then, also, keeping in mind there’s no magic whip. There’s not like a step by step thing. It’s a process of trial and error.
Catherine Langman:
You kind of just go through that. Exactly. We all need to test and see what happens. And then, learn from what happens. Yeah, exactly. So, in your business, the products are beautiful. The photography is beautiful on your website. And obviously, you’ve been able to create a few different products now. How do you come up with those ideas? Is that from your own personal needs and experience? You know, getting out there wearing the gear. Or are customers asking for things? Yeah. How do you [crosstalk 00:33:47].
Rhianna Knight:
It’s a little bit of a mix. I definitely have a lot of ideas about products that I’d love to bring to market. And maybe like if we need to add more pockets, or if it could this really cool drawstring feature here? Or all those kind of ideas. But then, also, there’s a lot of requests from customers. Which is so amazing to see. Like, “Oh, I love this fabric. Why don’t you introduce this?” And then, it’s just trying to figure out, “Okay. What actually makes sense from a creative, financial and complexity perspective? Of like how many different product [inaudible 00:34:23] do we want? How much can we actually afford? Does it make more sense to order double the quantities of this particular thing? Or should we just do standard quantities and have two different options?”
Rhianna Knight:
And I feel like for me, that’s an ongoing battle of being like, “Ooh, shiny object. Yes, I want that new thing.” And then, the, “No, hang on. It’s probably better to do one thing and order more of it, rather than do three things.” And then, especially within clothing, it’s like, “[inaudible 00:34:55] sold out of a couple sizes.” Like the product is still great. But it becomes a bit more difficult unless it’s a core item, and you’re going to restock it because then someone in one of those sold out sizes is like, “Oh, no. It’s not there anymore.”
Catherine Langman:
It’s such a juggle, isn’t it?
Rhianna Knight:
It’s tricky.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rhianna Knight:
Absolutely.
Catherine Langman:
I guess that situation will probably never go away. It’ll always be there. It’s a juggle in that sort of capacity.
Rhianna Knight:
Definitely.
Catherine Langman:
So, I want to know, you’ve shared so much with us today. Which is just amazing to hear all about your journey so far. What’s next for Team Timbuktu, the brand?
Rhianna Knight:
So much. So many things that haven’t even started yet.
Catherine Langman:
I love hearing that.
Rhianna Knight:
It’s funny, I think reflecting as well when I started the business, I had close to no idea that you even could start a business. I didn’t grow up with all these people in my life that had started businesses. I didn’t know any small business owners. And so, it was like, “Oh. I guess, maybe you might be able to run a business for a few years. And maybe you might be able to pay yourself, but maybe not.” I just had no idea about what was possible. And then, the people that I’ve met over the past few years, it’s like you can achieve a lot. The limit to kind of like the limits of your imagination. Perhaps access to capital. Perhaps how you want to balance your life versus business. But I think that’s a pretty incredible thing to understand. It’s like you can achieve almost anything you’d like, but it depends at what level of sacrifice are you happy to put in there.
Rhianna Knight:
Maybe you’ve got a lot going on at home or maybe you want to spend more time at home. So, you only want to work three days a week. So, then, the goals of the business may be a secondary. And you still want something really fulfilling and incredible. But you also have a limit of hours, or energy, or head space that you can put into the project. Which is totally fine.
Rhianna Knight:
And then, other people maybe feel like this is all they want to do. And I want to work 60 hours a week. [inaudible 00:37:16]. And I want to go launch in the States. And do all of these things. So, I think it’s incredibly exciting figuring out, like there’s infinite opportunity and possibility. But it’s just trying to channel that energy and focus onto, “Okay. What are some of the most important things?” Because you can’t everything, and you can’t achieve everything. But if you kind of narrow it down, you should be able to get some of the steps along the way, to one or two of those things. So, for Team Timbuktu, definitely got a lot of exciting things happening next year. What can I say?
Catherine Langman:
Hopefully, some travel I guess.
Rhianna Knight:
We definitely have some more artist collaborations coming.
Catherine Langman:
Oh, fantastic.
Rhianna Knight:
So, we did our first artist collaboration this year with an indigineous artist. And it was so popular. It’s such a beautiful piece.
Catherine Langman:
Yes.
Rhianna Knight:
But it’s just so incredible to see the response from the community. That they want to support artists, [inaudible 00:38:16]. I think when it’s gray and dreary outside, people are looking for a little bit of fun and color in their life.
Catherine Langman:
[crosstalk 00:38:26]. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it’s so gorgeous.
Rhianna Knight:
Yeah, that’s a stunning piece. And it’s so beautiful to learn about the story behind the original painting, and [inaudible 00:38:34] from the artist. It’s so nice. But other elements? Just everything. I think especially being kind of lockdown in Melbourne for the past year and a half, two years, the State is open, the country is open, maybe the world is open. I am so excited to go back and visit our manufacturers. I was set to do that I think March the 10th or something last year. And then, three days before, my flight got canceled. Which is lucky in the scheme of things.
Catherine Langman:
Yes. Well, that’s right. Yeah.
Rhianna Knight:
But just totally unexpected. And being able to perhaps start community events of doing hikes outdoors. I think that would be incredible. Also, definitely taking a break personally. I would love to go on a holiday, which there haven’t been any.
Catherine Langman:
I know. When’s the last time you had a holiday? You sound like you deserve one after several years of this.
Rhianna Knight:
I had one in February this year.
Catherine Langman:
[inaudible 00:39:40].
Rhianna Knight:
And I feel incredibly fortunate that I had that. Because then, we went back into lockdown.
Catherine Langman:
Well, that’s right. Yeah. I have family in Melbourne. And we had that one little sneaky opportunity in the year. And then, yeah, it’s just been nothing. I haven’t seen my Sydney family for so long either.
Rhianna Knight:
I know.
Catherine Langman:
It’s tough.
Rhianna Knight:
And that’s the thing for me, birthdays and weddings, and just instances where you’d normally connect with your friends and family. And it’s just not there.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Rhianna Knight:
But that’s all right. We’re getting back there.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. So, a holiday first hopefully. And then, maybe some new products and collaborations, and fun things like that. It sounds like 2022 is going to be a pretty good year for Team Timbuktu.
Rhianna Knight:
Definitely hope so. But I also am pretty sure I said that about 2021. It still has been a great year. But it’s also been like, “Why did you buy the diary this year? You should’ve learnt from last year.”
Catherine Langman:
Too funny. Too funny. It’s been such a pleasure having you on the show today. Thank you so much for joining us.
Rhianna Knight:
Thank you so much. I hope everyone found some value out of our conversation.
Catherine Langman:
I’m sure everyone will have thoroughly enjoyed listening to this conversation. And we will share the links to where people can find you online and on social, we’ll share them on the podcast share notes page. But do you want to just give yourself a quick shout out before we finish up?
Rhianna Knight:
Yeah, absolutely. So, teamtimbuktu.com. And it’s the same handle, teamtimbuktu on Instagram and Facebook. And we’d love to see you there.
Catherine Langman:
Fantastic. So good. Thanks for joining us today, Rhianna.
Rhianna Knight:
Thank you.