Catherine Langman:
Well, hello there. It’s Catherine Langman here back with another episode of the Productpreneur Success Podcast. And today on the show, I’m really thrilled to welcome a guest, Julia Christie, who is the founder and inventor of a brand called Nail Snail, which is a very cool product that you’ll have to listen to the episode to hear all about it. But this episode really is ideal if you are a product inventor, designer, creator, or you want to be, and you really want to hear about that whole process of turning an idea into a physical product; the whole designing and testing and prototyping, and actually bringing a product to market, and then where do you go from there to actually build it up into a viable business that makes money, of course?
Catherine Langman:
And the beautiful thing about having Julia on the show today is that she’s not afraid to talk about the difficulties and the mistakes, as well as the good news stories. So we’re not just giving you the Instagram highlight reel here. We’re not just giving you the glossy story. We’re really digging in and talking about the nitty-gritty, and sharing how you get past those things as well. How can you be the problemsolver and really take that entrepreneurial mindset about building your brand, building your business, and commercializing the product invention? So without further ado, let’s welcome Julia onto the show.
Catherine Langman:
Welcome to the show, Julia. It’s fantastic to have you here.
Julia Christie:
Hi, I’m so excited.
Catherine Langman:
It’s brilliant. And really excited to have a chat about your business journey. And of course, your business is the Nail Snail. And-
Julia Christie:
That’s right.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, do you want to just quickly tell our listeners what it is that you make and sell in your business?
Julia Christie:
Right, so the Nail Snail is a baby fingernail and toenail trimmer. And it’s different to anything else that’s ever been on the market, which is something… It’s very rare to come up with something that’s absolutely brand new. So, we’ve always had clippers and scissors and files, but the Nail Snail is actually a V-shaped trimmer that glides across the nail, rather than cutting down onto it. It’s a three-in-one, so it’s got the nail file in the tummy, and then the under nail cleaner in the tail, and it’s in the shape of a snail. And it’s just much more friendly, and easier, and safer, and faster, and gives parents confidence when trimming their little ones’ nails.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, so good. Definitely, we should add that one for my kids who are little.
Julia Christie:
So many people have said that to me.
Catherine Langman:
Now, I can quite imagine what the idea or the problem was that sparked the innovation here, but do you want to tell that story to kick us off?
Julia Christie:
Sure. So, like a lot of first time parents, I hadn’t really thought about at all what would happen when I had to come to cut my child’s nails. I didn’t think it would be a big deal, or that’s scary, or whatnot. But then when my son, Emmett, was born, I got the set of baby nail clippers from, let’s say, Safety 1st. I don’t really like to talk about other brands, but then I don’t think they are very safe at all. But I used the clippers, and I actually clipped the tip of his finger. And he was bleeding-
Catherine Langman:
I’m sure I did that too.
Julia Christie:
… and I felt awful.
Catherine Langman:
I’m sure we all did that.
Julia Christie:
So many parents have, yes. So many. Because when I started asking friends and family, they were all like, “Oh yeah, it’s a rite of passage. It’s really normal. Everybody does it.” And my husband also used a pair of nail scissors, and he ended up cutting the other tip of Emmett’s little finger. And we-
Catherine Langman:
Oh, God, poor child.
Julia Christie:
It was awful, yeah. We were crying, and the worst parents in the world. And it wasn’t our fault. It was poor design of these products. And you don’t think to go, “Oh, well, it’s the clippers’ fault.” You go, “It’s my fault.” And that guilt of parents is awful. And parenting’s hard enough as it is. You don’t need that added guilt on there. So, I went, I want something different that does a good job and doesn’t hurt little fingers and toes. So, it was just that process of, okay, well, here’s my problem. Now I need to solve it.
Catherine Langman:
And so, how did you go about doing that? Because this is not something most of us… Trying to design a physical product like that that’s solving something, it’s a pretty intricate problem. How do you even get started with that?
Julia Christie:
Well, I am quite a problem solver and always have been. And I enjoy, okay, how can we look at this a little bit differently? And I thought, okay, I want something that goes across the nail rather than clipping down onto it. I found a cuticle trimmer, and a stitch unpicker, and a champagne bottle opener. And I was a little knife, and was trying to work out, how can I go about doing this properly? And using all those different tools, I went, “Well, I want something that’s shaped like a V, and I want something to have a shorter handle. And I want something that doesn’t poke into the fingers, so it needs to be smooth at the ends.” And then I woke up at, of all days, 1st of April, so April Fool’s, at about five o’clock in the morning, and I woke up and I was like, “Okay.” And I started doodling on this piece of paper. And I still have that original piece of paper. It’s actually framed and hanging up in my office.
Catherine Langman:
I was just going to say you should have that hung, definitely.
Julia Christie:
I still got that. And I was doodling away, and had a flat line, and then I had a round one, and then I had a long skinny one. And then I drew one that went, well that looks like a snail. And then I went, Nail Snail.
Catherine Langman:
Nail Snail.
Julia Christie:
There’s something in that. And just adding the file on the bottom on the little tail. And the design itself hasn’t changed that much from that original, five o’clock in the morning, April 1st doodle.
Catherine Langman:
That’s incredible.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, so the idea and the design itself was complete. And then I went and made one out of Fimo, which is a child plasticine that you harden in the oven, and I made a bit of a prototype. So, that’s, what does it feel like, and what size, and what shape, and whatnot. And luck would have it… Well, luck being the harder you work, the luckier you are.
Catherine Langman:
Yes, persistence.
Julia Christie:
I was driving, and I came behind a bus. And the bus actually said in an ad on the back, “We take your product idea and turn it into a reality.” [inaudible 00:05:12].
Catherine Langman:
No way, no way.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, yeah, a really bizarre coincidence, and I rang the number. I was frantically trying to write it down while I was in the car driving, and I’m chasing this bus, and it was so funny. And ended up calling a wonderful woman called Belinda Coker. And she was instrumental in setting me on the right path right at the beginning.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, that’s so cool. And so, how long ago was that? Because I know you’ve been in business for some time now. But when-
Julia Christie:
Yeah, so-
Catherine Langman:
When you had the first idea, obviously, the product development takes a while to get to market-
Julia Christie:
2014.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, right. Awesome.
Julia Christie:
2014 was the idea, yeah.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. And then-
Julia Christie:
And then registering the business and all that sort of thing.
Catherine Langman:
So, how long did that whole product development process take before you could actually get to market?
Julia Christie:
So, a long time. It had to wait a long time. So, it was quite a few steps. Because it was such a brand new idea, it had to go for so many steps. I worked with a great industrial design team called Formzoo Designs, and they’re based in Brisbane. And that team was amazing at, okay, well, what’s it actually made from? How is it actually going to be manufactured? Or you want rubber on this part? Well, what is the rubber? What grade of rubber is it? Is it soft rubber or hard rubber? What steel, what metal are you going to use? What sort of steel? Is it this grade of steel or this grade of steel? Is it this thickness or that thickness? The nail file, there’s 12 different grades of nail file. Which nail file do you want to use? And every single step of the way, you need to work out, what exactly is it do I want? Okay, what color do you want? Okay, well, I want turquoise. Okay, but there’s 57 shades of turquoise. What shade of turquoise works with this plastic in order to give that color that you want?
Julia Christie:
And then you’ve got all the prototyping as well. And that costs a fortune. I had no idea that that’s what… We’re looking at for handmade Nail Snail. I actually had two made from two different manufacturers, one recommended by Formzoo, and one recommended by Belinda. And I’m really, really pleased that I had that done, because one was fantastic, and one just wasn’t up to the mark. And I really like to make the right decision rather than a fast decision. So, I was able to say, “Okay, well, just give me prototypes alone, which one’s the better quality.” Because I wanted to make something that was exceptional quality, not just a junky piece of rubbish that breaks after 10 uses. I wanted something that would be exceptional, would last-
Catherine Langman:
A few kids.
Julia Christie:
…a few years. Yeah, you’d be passing it on to the grandkids, kind of thing. And taking the environment into consideration. Even though we are a plastic product, it feels that longevity-
Catherine Langman:
It’s durable.
Julia Christie:
So, we foresee that the Nail Snail would last a really long time, and be durable, and be an exceptional quality product that you could use for generations. You can clean it and pass it on to your grandkids.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Julia Christie:
Because that’s so important. Even though we’re a plastic product, it was that idea of at least keeping the environment in mind for that. Not making something cheap and nasty, but making the Rolls Royce, the Ferrari of baby nail care.
Catherine Langman:
I love it. I love it. And where did you end up making them? Are they made in Australia or…
Julia Christie:
Well, they’re made in China. So, I tried really hard to have made in Australia. I also looked at-
Catherine Langman:
It’s hard, isn’t it?
Julia Christie:
Oh, it is hard. It’s really, really hard. And I was met with a lot of, oh, we could make that product here, but then we need to ship it to Sydney, and then the second bit will need to be made here. And then it needs to be shipped back to Melbourne to do this third bit here. And it would have just cost, retail price would have gone up to 40, $50.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, which nobody’s going to pay, unfortunately.
Julia Christie:
No. Exactly, exactly. And I was met with a lot of, are you sure, hun? What does your husband think? Are you sure you’re making the right decision, little lady? I was met with so much of that rubbish.
Catherine Langman:
Isn’t that the worst?
Julia Christie:
And it was just… It was ridiculous. And anyone I spoke to within China was like, “Yes, absolutely. We will make that happen. Whatever you need, we’ll get it done.” Very respectful, very organized, very let’s make this happen. Whereas I found with Australian manufacturers, it was like, “Oh, that’s a bit tough. Oh, I don’t know if we can do that.” It was just very negative, and I was like, “All right, look, if you don’t think it can be done, I’ll just find someone else.”
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. Good on you.
Julia Christie:
So, yeah, that… You just keep going.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. You just have to be persistent. I think that’s my new favorite word. I’ll tell my kids all the time.
Julia Christie:
Absolutely. Persistence is key. I don’t think I’m smarter or more talented or more clever than any anyone else. I think it’s just persistent, dogged determination. I have to make this work. I’ve gone too far now.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s a very common experience for entrepreneurs, for sure. Totally, totally agree. And so, obviously, those are some challenges that you would have been facing through that product development stage. Was there anything else? Because I know a lot of people feel like trying to get a product developed into market is a Herculean task.
Julia Christie:
Oh, it is, yeah.
Catherine Langman:
And unfortunately, we can all falsely be lulled into the false sense that once you get to market, the hard work’s all done.
Julia Christie:
Oh, you’re not even close.
Catherine Langman:
Maybe, can you talk through some of the other challenges that you’ve faced and how you’ve managed to overcome them?
Julia Christie:
So, the biggest thing is just finances, and managing bills, and money, and money coming in, and money going out is definitely the biggest one. Because everything costs more than you think it will. And because you don’t know what you’re doing… Well, I don’t know what I’m doing. I still don’t know what I’m doing.
Catherine Langman:
You figure it out as you go.
Julia Christie:
I’m joking. I do know what I’m doing. I was just working it out as you go along. But you go, “Okay, I’ve done my packaging design.” And then someone goes, “Oh, okay, where’s your barcodes?” You go, “Oh, yeah, I totally need a barcode, okay. Okay, I’ll just get a barcode.” And you Google, because Google is my best friend, how to get a barcode? And then it’s $700 later, and you’re like, “Oh, I didn’t know that barcodes cost $700, whoa.” And all these little things… Because I had also as well, which is an added challenge, with my patenting, and trademarking, and IP protection, which was a huge cost.
Catherine Langman:
Oh, that’s massive, definitely. Was testing… Did you have to go through a series of safety testing phase? Yeah.
Julia Christie:
Yes. So, the SGS safety testing was to make sure, again, that all the materials were baby safe. Because even though a Nail Snail’s not a toy, I still know, and as a parent, you know that babies are going to pick them up, and they’re going to put them in their mouths, and they’re going to chew on them, and whatnot, which is totally unintended. It’s not a toy, and it’s a tool. And it’s… The Nail Snail still has a blade on it.
Catherine Langman:
It’s a medical task, really.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, absolutely. So, I needed to make sure for me personally, that if a baby did put the Nail Snail in their mouth, that they weren’t going to cut their tongue, that they weren’t going to swallow it, that they weren’t going to choke on it, that it wasn’t going to be a dangerous plastic that had BPA in it or anything like that. So, it got SGS internationally safety standards tested to toy and medical device standards, which is double the cost.
Catherine Langman:
Jeepers.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, so again, you’re looking at another $2,000 per test. And then I wanted a longevity test, well, how long is this product going to last? And they do pressure testing and salt water testing, and is it going rust, and that sort of thing. And that cost another $2,000.
Catherine Langman:
Was that beneficial in the end to go through all those motions?
Julia Christie:
I think so. Yeah, I think so, just from an insurance point of view, and a distributor point of view. Distributors wanted to see safety testing. And I think parents are becoming more conscious of that too, because there are baby clippers that are sold at the moment that are so tiny that they are actively a choking hazard. And there was a little boy in China that swallowed a pair of clippers and had to have eight hours of surgery to have a pair of clippers taken out through some small intestines. So, things like that, I thought, I never ever want my Nail Snail to hurt children. And that’s from a manufacturing point of view.
Julia Christie:
You want to make sure that you’re using an ethical manufacturer that doesn’t have child and slave labor involved in it too. And again, that’s more expensive. But I don’t think that should be an option. That should be the bare minimum. You should not have children working in factories, full stop, blatantly. So, it shouldn’t be a, “Oh, do I top up the cost?” No. We as consumers need to know that that’s what product should cost. If it is more expensive, well, it’s not more expensive, that’s the price of the item. The cheap one means that someone’s paying with their life.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, exactly.
Julia Christie:
That’s what it becomes.
Catherine Langman:
I remember a few years ago, you would remember this too, there was that textiles factory in Bangladesh that collapsed because there was an unsafe working space in it that had children working in there, and everything was just awful.
Julia Christie:
Oh, it’s horrendous. It’s literally horrendous. And you think, as consumers, we need to make sure that we are… Well, not even as consumers, because it’s not on us, because analysis paralysis. But manufacturers and businesses need to make sure that they are being responsible.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, definitely.
Julia Christie:
And it’s often the little guy or the little people that tend to make the right decisions. And it’s the huge players that just go, “Oh, well, I can get away with it.”
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, they’re a bit slower to get over the line sometimes, aren’t they?
Julia Christie:
Yeah, so it’s crucially important, and I’m proud to say that the Nail Snail manufacturing and production facilities are all ethically up to the highest world standard and all have environmental considerations in place. And I visited the factory, and it was one of the top 10 moments of my life. I bawled like a baby. There was people looking at me funny. It was incredible.
Catherine Langman:
Isn’t that awesome? Yeah, I see you.
Julia Christie:
Absolutely incredible, yeah.
Catherine Langman:
Your brainwave, your idea to be coming into reality is amazing. But with all these costs adding up through that development stage, at what point did you start looking at, okay, well, how much do I need to sell this for in order to make money and be confident in the viability of it?
Julia Christie:
Yeah, so I’m still dealing with the fallout of that, I think. Because the price competition is… You can just go to the chemist and buy a $3 set of nail clippers. Whereas my product is $20, which seems like a lot of money comparatively, but for what you get, it’s peanuts. Because you can buy it in a formula for $20. You can buy one of those amber teething necklaces, which, for me, has no scientific data basis to them whatsoever. And they’re $40. Whereas a Nail Snail is making this job so much easier. And you use it once a week on 10 fingers and toes. By the time your child’s six, it’s worked out to be less than a cent-
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, the cost per use is negligible.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, and that’s only with one child. By the time you’ve got three kids, it’s almost a cent a use for everybody. So, it’s really… It’s doing that math for that longevity. And it has been interesting, because half the people go… Well, initially, when I said $20, half the people were like, “Oh, that’s really expensive.” And the other half were like, “Oh, that’s really cheap.” [crosstalk 00:18:29]. Right in the middle there. But there is that idea of what you manufacture it for, then double it to landed, and then double it for wholesale, and then double it for retail. And that’s the kind of ballpark figure is what it’s going to be.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. And doing your due diligence, I guess, for the listeners who are in that development stage, making sure that you are going to be able to sell it for sure.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, because you’ve got to be able to sell them.
Catherine Langman:
100%. We’re not here to be charities.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, exactly. No, I’m here to make money, absolutely.
Catherine Langman:
And so, when you were ready to launch the product, tell us what you did. What did you do to actually start making some money? How did you get it out there?
Julia Christie:
Well, I had… To get the first production on, I did a Kickstarter campaign. And that helped with getting the word out there a little bit. I also did a lot of ground work, putting up flyers in local daycares, emailing people. I started up a bit of social media as well. I had an Instagram page and a Facebook page. I had a website that I built myself, which is so embarrassing to look back on now. But I did the best-
Catherine Langman:
Oh, we’re all embarrassed about our first website, don’t worry. Mine was horrendous.
Julia Christie:
I did the best I could with what I had. Utilizing that word of mouth as well. Some Facebook ads. But Kickstarter was the main one, really, to get that first lot of customers. Because you can’t rely on friends and family to buy your stuff. You just can’t.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, I was just having a conversation about that with someone on my team yesterday, talking about how common it is for a lot of people to… Their idea of their product validation is to ask their mates and their family, do you think this is a good idea? And-
Julia Christie:
Yeah, you can’t do that.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, they’re just going to say… Give you a favorable answer, because they don’t want to hurt your feelings.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, yep. See, I was met with quite a lot of resistance, actually, people going, “Why are you bothering us? There’s already clippers. No one really needs a Nail Snail.” From family, mainly. But then I had… I knew I was onto something, actually, when I had my prototype, my $1,000 handmade prototype, and went to a park with a barbecue. And it was a group of friends, and a meeting, sort of an extended group of people with children. And I said, “Oh, do you mind if I use this prototype on your kids?” And I’m this crazy lady at the park, “Oh, can I cut your kids’ nails? And they’re like, “Okay, sure thing.” And then the parents were like, “Oh, can we have a go?” And they were using it. And there was this line up of parents going, “Oh, my gosh, this is amazing. I can’t believe it.” I even had one parent say, “Can I buy your prototype, please?” And I went, “Well, no, I can’t-“
Catherine Langman:
It’s the only one I’ve got.
Julia Christie:
And they’re like, “No, I’ll give you 50 bucks.” I’m like, “No, it’s…” “$300, I’ll give you $300.” No, I can’t. It’s a $1,000 prototype. Sorry. But I had pre-orders in that sense from every single one of those parents at the park.
Catherine Langman:
How good is that? Yeah.
Julia Christie:
Yeah. And we launched at an expo, actually, which was really nice, one of the first baby and toddler expos, and just went with our little handmade stands and little signs and whatnot. And sold a whole bunch of them. It was very exciting.
Catherine Langman:
That’s fantastic. I know so many businesses that launched out in that way, going to an expo. I was one of them.
Julia Christie:
That’s right.
Catherine Langman:
I did a soft launch similar to what you’re describing back in the day, though. It was on eBay, because this was before the likes of Shopify and everything. And then it went to an expo. And I remember a couple of years later, the brand BeeBox, you would know that brand, and they had a stand opposite me. And that was their first expo. And they were there to do their product validation. And look at them now, they’re a global behemoth.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, amazing.
Catherine Langman:
It’s fantastic, yeah.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, I think expos are really great because you get instant customer feedback. And you can-
Catherine Langman:
Is someone going to buy your product, pay actual money for it? That’s what you want.
Julia Christie:
Pay actual money. And then because the Nail Snail requires quite a bit of education to start with on what is it, and how does it work, and how do I use it, it became a real platform for educating parents on how to use them. And once you just say, “Look, I’m not trying to sell it to you. Just let me show you how it works.” And you show them, and they go, “Please take my money.” So, that was really great. And it was also really nice for my ego, [inaudible 00:23:37] these people, “Oh, you’re clever.” And I miss that. I miss that about expos. If you’re working at home on your own in your lounge room, and you’re just like, “Oh, gosh, am I doing the right thing? Is this okay?” And you’re quite lonely, and you’re quite isolated-
Catherine Langman:
Yes, which we all are at the moment.
Julia Christie:
I miss the expo. Oh, that’s tough.
Catherine Langman:
It’s so tough for so many people right now, that’s for sure.
Julia Christie:
Oh, yeah. Missing out on the human connection. And I like putting on a nice dress, and putting some makeup on, and going out in the world, and engaging with people, and being part of society. I love that. I’m quite an extroverted person, and I thrive on it, and I enjoy it. I need that ego boost [inaudible 00:24:20].
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, so good. And so, before we move on with… I’ve got a couple more questions on different topics for you. But before we get to that, what would be your top three tips for someone who is looking to develop and produce and create their own product?
Julia Christie:
Okay, so number one, get a good accountant. All right, so bookkeeping, keeping track of finances, having an idea of money, and someone that you can trust and can help you set up your business in a way that protects you and protects your product and your personal finances as well. Because you do have to be smart about these things. Setting up a family trust, or having a business registered in different… Whether it’s a proprietary limited, or whether you need an incorporated, or that sort of thing, they can help you do the nitty gritty with that, to set it up as best to begin with. Also, decide whether or not you want to do patenting. Because patenting is an enormous cost.
Catherine Langman:
It’s huge, isn’t it?
Julia Christie:
I’m looking at about 20, $30,000, maybe. Maybe even more. By the time I add it all up, it might even be… It’s almost like 10,000, $15,000 a country. And there’s no such thing as a global patent. You can’t just get a whole wide world patent. There’s no such thing. So, you have to apply for each country individually as you so choose. And be very mindful of posting any pictures or 3D imaging or photos of your prototype on social media, even as an unpublished Facebook page. Because if you accidentally push publish, which I may have done-
Catherine Langman:
Oh, dear. It’s out there in the world then and you can’t-
Julia Christie:
It’s out… Yeah, and even though your dad and your friend, Nina, saw it, and you pull it down as fast as you could, it’s still classed as common knowledge. So, be really careful with that. And also, anyone that you’re going to talk in depth to that may have the capability of taking your idea-
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, I have seen that happen, unfortunately, yeah.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, I would have, even if it’s just on a scrap of paper that says, “I, Julia Christie, will not take your idea and monetize it and sell it,” signed, this date. I think it’s really, really important to just have those in place, to be mindful of that. But also then, you still need to talk to people, and you still need to share your idea, and you still need to run it by other people. But just be really measured with what you do and don’t say.
Catherine Langman:
Really good advice there.
Julia Christie:
Is that two? Yeah. Number three, everything costs more than you think it’s going to cost. And apply for grants early.
Catherine Langman:
Great idea. Yeah, yeah. There’s some really great grants a lot of around, especially Queensland.
Julia Christie:
Yeah. And there were some fantastic grants. So, the accelerating commercialization grant was a big one. And the name would have you think that you’re applying for it when you’re already commercial, and you’re accelerating that commercialization, but don’t be fooled. Because I applied for it when I was already commercial, I already had stockists, I already had product, I already had proof of concept, I already had customers, and I was accelerating that commercialization. But [crosstalk 00:28:08].
Catherine Langman:
You’re too late.
Julia Christie:
They said, “Oh, no, you’re doing too well. You’re going well enough already. You don’t need it. We needed you to apply two years ago when you first had the idea.” And I’m like, “What? Okay. So, what do I apply for now?” “Oh, there’s all these other different things you can do.” So, it’s like, ah, because that would have been [crosstalk 00:28:30] one to have, yeah.
Catherine Langman:
Hugely helpful.
Julia Christie:
Yeah. So, if you can get some funding there to start with, I think that’s really good-
Catherine Langman:
The other one is the R&D grant, which I guess you probably would get. For most-
Julia Christie:
Yes, I’ve got that one too.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, that’s a federally run, tax related rebate, really, isn’t it?
Julia Christie:
Yeah, you have to spend the money first, and then you get a percentage back. I think it’s 40% back.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, it’s pretty generous.
Julia Christie:
So, you do have to be mindful of that too, yeah.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. So, that’s a good one for-
Julia Christie:
And spending the money first.
Catherine Langman:
…all of you product innovators, though. So, keep your mind on those sorts of things. That’s a great tip. Now, as we move along in your business journey, I want to pick your brains about how you’ve built your business around wholesale. Because on this podcast, we do talk a lot about e-commerce, but a lot of people, a lot of brands that we work with, they’re selling both wholesale and e-commerce. And I know that you’ve had some great success with wholesale. And I think you export as well, right?
Julia Christie:
Yeah, I love wholesale. Yeah, I do. So, I love wholesale. So, we started very small and grew quite quickly with the wholesale. And then we’re even growing still. Wholesale started with me walking around to my local chemists and pharmacies and local baby boutiques, and knocking on the door and saying, “Hey, I’ve got this great product. So I’ve got the Nail Snail. Would you like to stock me in your store?” And servicing them myself. Phone calls, how are you going with stock levels? Is there anything I can do to help? Sharing on my social media, we’ve got the local baby store that’s stocking us. Check that out. And that was really fun. And I got about… In my first year, I think I got about 32, 33 stockists that way, just walking around knocking on the door.
Catherine Langman:
That’s pretty good. That’s awesome.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, which was great, which was fantastic. And then I went to the APP, which is the Australian Pharmacy Expo. And I love these sorts of things, because I would make these decisions to do these things, and people would say, “Oh, that’s not the way you do it.” And I go, “Well, I’m already doing it, so…”
Catherine Langman:
Too bad.
Julia Christie:
Oh, well. And so, I went to the pharmacy expo, and I thought, well, I can sell to a whole bunch of pharmacists. There’ll be walking past my store, and I’ll sell them to independent pharmacies, and they can just buy a box. Everyone was going, “Well, no one actually buys anything, or they just get free samples.” And I said, “Well, I can’t afford to give away free samples. They can buy them.” “Oh, no, nobody does that.” “Well, I already am. Watch me.” So, I think I signed up another, what, 50 pharmacies that way.
Catherine Langman:
That’s so good.
Julia Christie:
And luck… Not necessarily luck, but again, fortune would have it that next to me was a stand for distributors. And they were looking at me… So, KB medical, and… Mainly KB Medical. But yes, so this fantastic distribution team, Cathy Williamson as well. And I’m happy to share all of my distributors’ details as well. I’ve got them all on my website, so if you want to look up who my distributors are, feel free to stop on the website.
Catherine Langman:
That’s very generous of you.
Julia Christie:
Oh, that’s all right. But yes, they are a bright group of people and great team. And they were watching me, going, “Who is this crazy woman selling products, and selling all these Nail Snails, and what on earth is going on?” And they came over and were like, “You know you’re not supposed to be selling stuff, right?” I’m like, again, [inaudible 00:32:14]. So, they went, “Well, we want a piece of this action. This is going really well.” And in that first year, they took me from the 30 stockists to 300 stockists.
Catherine Langman:
Wow, 10X.
Julia Christie:
So, [inaudible 00:32:32] just works. Yeah, huge. So, they went chemists and pharmacies. I was responsible for baby stores. But they did… Yeah, focused on chemists and pharmacy-
Catherine Langman:
Nationally?
Julia Christie:
…pretty much Australia wide. Yeah. Yep, all over. It was a bit… So, Tasmania was a little bit slower, and Northern Territory is still a little bit slower. But Victoria, Queensland, [inaudible 00:32:53] WA, South Australia, growing that way, and they’re still growing. So, we’re now at 910, I think.
Catherine Langman:
That’s amazing.
Julia Christie:
My goal at the end of the year is to be 1,000. So, 2021-
Catherine Langman:
Sounds like you’re going to get there.
Julia Christie:
To hit 1,000. Yeah, well, hopefully. And the hard thing is with COVID. Because of all the, everything shutting down, people aren’t necessarily going, oh, I want to bring on a brand new product.
Catherine Langman:
No, not necessarily, but I guess the good thing is, and myself being married to a pharmacist, I know this for a fact, they’re open. They’re essential.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, yeah, so chemists and pharmacies are open, which has been really fortunate for us, because we’ve been able to stock that and have that fairly uninterrupted. The distributors got busy with masks and hand sanitizer. But then they came back on board [inaudible 00:33:47]. So, that’s been really fortunate. Oh, and the other tip for product based business, make your product small. Make it little.
Catherine Langman:
It’s a great thing for things like postage and all of that kind of stuff. Yeah, absolutely.
Julia Christie:
And shipping internationally and storage. All of my Nail Snails, I can have 10,000 Nail Snails under my stairs.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, 100%.
Julia Christie:
I don’t need a warehouse, or any sort of storage space for that. So, that’s been amazing.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, that was something I did not do well with my first business, being modern cloth nappies. They’re lightweight, but they take up a lot of space. So, they cost a lot to ship, and you need a lot of space to keep them.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, and lots of different skews. So, you would have different prints and different sizes and different inserts and-
Catherine Langman:
Hundreds, probably thousands, I can’t remember now.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, I’ve just got the turquoise Nail Snail, and then we have the additional color, depending on what charity we’re supporting, which I love. Again, I wanted to do from the beginning. So, we started with a jacaranda purple, which is for Light for Riley and the efficacy of the whooping cough vaccination, which has been amazing. And now our second charity is the Pink Elephant miscarriage and stillbirth support for parents grieving. Yeah, so little lost babies, or… Yeah, but again, charities that are just fun ones are the nice ones to talk about. I get emotional every time I talk about Pink Elephant. I had a miscarriage at 16 weeks, which was horrendously awful. And to have that support, I think is so incredibly important. And it doesn’t benefit Nail Snail in any way, in the sense that I can’t sell to those people. And that’s not what it’s about. It’s about raising money for a charity that is close to my heart and is important, and yes, needs that extra little love. Even those moments when we can’t necessarily afford it, I still think it’s so important to be able to do that. And we just sell them slowly. They’re beautiful, frangipani pink color. And we slowly sell them, and then when we sell out, we send off money, and yeah, it’s been really stunning to be able to do that.
Catherine Langman:
That’s awesome. So, when you are building a wholesale business, which, really, when you’re building any business, I suppose, but how important is it to be focusing on the relationship? Because I think a lot of people are really intimidated about maybe attempting to build a wholesale to their business, because the idea of selling and sales is really scary for a lot of people. So, how do you… What would you say about that?
Julia Christie:
Well, I think you don’t necessarily need to be a cold, hard sales person, I think. If you just explain your product, and what it is, and how it benefits the store, and you offer them support in the sense that low [inaudible 00:37:15] to start with, we make it very, very easy to order through wholesale through our website, which is really important to me, because that way, you get money upfront too. If you’re chasing people with invoicing, and you haven’t quite paid yet, or that sort of thing, that can take up a lot of time and be very, very draining.
Catherine Langman:
It’s exhausting, yes.
Julia Christie:
And distribution’s different, again, because my distributors buy 500 to 1,000 units for me at a time, and then they take 30 days to pay. I don’t have to trace up any of the chemist or pharmacy. Payment, it just comes from my distributor, whereas the individual wholesalers, if you do set them up with invoicing and things, then it can become a bit of, hi, Marcus, you haven’t paid your invoice again. Can you please do that? And it can become quite wearing. But if you have them ordering on your website, then they pay with a credit card or PayPal or whatnot upfront, you post back the item, it’s great. And then every time they order, I do a welcome our new stockist on Instagram. We’ve got these new people on board, so excited to have you. We also have a follow up with email marketing. So, through [Klaviyo 00:38:35] and Rachel, who is my incredible email marketer. She does the welcome to the team email, he has all your resources, he has videos, he has photos. He has a Dropbox link to all these lifestyle images you can use. Feel free to share anything from my Instagram and Facebook pages. He has our frequently asked questions. [inaudible 00:38:59] tutorial videos.
Julia Christie:
We also offer point of sale posters and flyers that have a QR code on them, so if customers go, what on earth is this, they can scan the QR code, and we have a video that plays that is how to use the Nail Snail.
Catherine Langman:
That’s awesome.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, and we’ve got the Nail Snail song, and whenever we email out that fortnight to our customers, we do a this is our stockist of the week. And we say to our stockists, “Take a photo of the Nail Snail in your store, and share it on your social media, and I’ll share it on my social media.” So, it’s a bit of a work together, and we’ll make this happen. But I don’t find myself calling stockists to say, “Hey, how you going,” or anything like that, because we’ve given them all of that information right from the get go. So, if they’ve got any questions… Or even things like a return policy. We have a return policy that is no matter who you are or where you bought it from, return it to me, and I’ll refund you. So far, I’ve had to refund four out of 100,000.
Catherine Langman:
Right.
Julia Christie:
That’s pretty good.
Catherine Langman:
That’s pretty good innings.
Julia Christie:
Yeah.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. But how attractive would that be to a potential stockist? That’s brilliant.
Julia Christie:
Absolutely.
Catherine Langman:
Makes it absolutely easy.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, because the customers then send the Nail Snail back to me, and I can test whether it’s faulty or not. And I think we’ve had 10 faulty ones out of the 100,000. If it is faulty, I then package them up and send them back to the manufacturer and say, “These are faulty. Either repair them, because I don’t throw them in the bin, repair them, or work out why they’re faulty and send me another 10 replacements.” Or if they’re fine and they work well, and the customer says, “Oh, sorry, silly me. I didn’t quite know how to use it.” And it also gives me a chance to help that customer if they come back to me with, oh, I hate it. It’s awful. It’s the worst thing ever. I want my money back, which they’re well within their rights to do, I can say, “Well, here, let me help you. Why do you hate it? What’s going on? I’m here to help. Are you using it the right way? Are you sitting your child in your lap? Are their fingers facing away from you?” And then they go, “Oh, no, I wasn’t doing that.” I’m like, “Okay, well, can you try and do it that way for me?” And nine times out of 10, they’ll come back and go. “I’m really sorry. I was using it wrong. I love it. It’s amazing. Thanks so much for your help.”
Catherine Langman:
That’s great.
Julia Christie:
So, I get to solve that problem before it becomes a problem. If they still, no, I don’t like it at all. I think it’s faulty, and they send it back and it’s faulty, would you like a replacement? “Oh, yes, please.” I send up a replacement. Problem solved. And then they email back with, “It was great. I love it so much. Thanks so much. Thanks for the amazing customer service.”
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, that’s it, isn’t it? Providing really easy process and the proactive customer service is going to do you far more favors than capitulating to a demand or stressing about it too much.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, we even had… So, any of the Nail Snails that are sent back that are fine, I clean, give a good clean, and then we donate them. So, the latest bunch, which was I think about five. Again, there’s not many. Out of 100,000, there’s not many, so we’ve only done it one time. But Katrina went to Bali, this was pre-COVID, and she took the five Nail Snails, all cleaned and wrapped up to a childcare center in Bali that had an orphanage to attached to it. And so, they were able to use that for those kids in the orphanages. Because I refused to throw these things in the bin. They’re not going in the bin.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, that’s awesome.
Julia Christie:
If I can do something to have them used and useful, then I will. So, we’ll do that again next time we get to five or whatnot. We’ll package them up and send them off to whoever needs them. And that’s the thing, you can give them this beautiful claim, and they’re still perfectly fine. Because I love secondhand stuff. I’m a big believer in circular economy. 99% of my wardrobe is secondhand. I have zero problems with secondhand stuff. Absolutely love it. And I think we need to be a bit more open to that too. If something’s clean and perfectly bought, then it should to be used-
Catherine Langman:
Absolutely. Yeah, totally. That’s fantastic. Some really great ideas that you’re sharing here that I think pretty much any of us could adopt, really. So, it’s been fantastic. So, obviously 2020, 2021, it’s been a tough year for everybody. How has it been for Nail Snail? And how have you managed to get through those challenges?
Julia Christie:
Well, I thought that we were a bit bulletproof in the sense that, oh, chemists and pharmacies still open, we’re going great, guys, we’ll be fine. What I hadn’t anticipated was the effect that it would have on our international market. So, initially, we were posting out Nail Snails, and again, a very intentional design consideration was making Nail Snails thin enough to fit in a padded envelope, and patched, posted as a letter in mail anywhere in the world for $5. And we were posting out to Sweden, and we had one go to Guam, and we had one go to Nunatak, which I had to Google… No, [inaudible 00:44:28], but I had to Google this place. I’m like, “What is going on?” The Nunatak is an Inuit settlement in far north Canada, and the Nail Snail was delivered on Ski-Doo.
Catherine Langman:
No way. That is the coolest story.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, that’s incredible. A parent in Nunatak in northern Canada-
Catherine Langman:
Ordered my Nail Snail.
Julia Christie:
[inaudible 00:44:50], I need to cut my baby’s nails, what do I use? I’m going to buy a Nail Snail all the way from Australia, on literally the other side of the planet in order to get to me in order to do this, which just absolutely blew my mind. And we see this lovely effect where one would go to Sweden. And then the next week, you’d see two go to Sweden. And then the week later, you’d see 10 go to Sweden. You’re like, “Yes, somebody is talking in Sweden about the Nail Snail.” And we noticed that as soon as COVID here, no international purchases. And then they changed it from being $5 anywhere in the world to $21 anywhere in the world. I don’t know about you, but I’m not going to spend $21 postage on a $20 item.
Catherine Langman:
No. That really balls up a bit, doesn’t it?
Julia Christie:
It does. So, we came to a crashing halt when it came to international shipping. This absolutely brought us to our knees. Okay, we can’t do this on our own. And we talked about international distributors, and I had some international distributors, and there are some good ones, and there are some not so good ones. There’s some great ones that you hear from once a week, and how’s everything going, and you can see them growing and working really hard, and there’s other ones, they buy 1,000 units, and you never hear from them again. And you think, what happened? I’m here. I’m emailing you. If you need help, I’m here. What’s going on? And you just think, why am I working with you? What’s going on with this? I’d rather take that 1,000 units, and spend some money on some Google ads, and post them myself. So, it became this real toss up between, oh, I want all the international distributors, and, well, they’re not really doing anything for you. Oh, get rid of all the ones that don’t work and only focus on the ones that are. And you’re better starting slow and getting a few really, really good ones than 100 terrible ones.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, I had some experiences like that too in my business. Must be really common. I ended up just having a smaller handful of the ones that came in as distributors because they had actually used the products themselves and were so passionate about it. The other ones that were just, you’re distributors who have hundreds of different products in their staple, they just never ever worked out.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, and I thought, they don’t necessarily get it. You’ve got to have people that get it. My favorite distributor, Eily from Wonderbubz, and Cathy, who’s based in the Philippines. So, Wonderbubz is based in Ireland. And Eily, she’s in contact with me all the time, Instagram, we’re always talking to each other. What’s the latest things? What can we do? She’s a hard working mom from home, and she’s a powerhouse. And you can see her just growing and growing and growing. And at some point, she started to outnumber me on Instagram and Facebook, which I’m super excited by. And I want her to sell more than me. She’s got a much bigger market than I have. I want her to be 10 times in what I’m selling. So, I’m hoping… And she’s just putting in so much hard work. It’s absolutely phenomenal to see. But then I’ve had really big distributors that have a cache of 100 products or whatever, Oh, we really want you, it’s going to be amazing, and then it’s crickets. I think I’d rather go with someone that’s going to work hard and actually represent than just disappear in this truckload of things and never hear from you again.
Catherine Langman:
Yes, seems to be the way things go.
Julia Christie:
But that’s hard to manage, and you don’t really know until-
Catherine Langman:
No, you’ve got to give it a go, don’t you? That’s the only way to find out.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, absolutely.
Catherine Langman:
So, where to next for Nail Snail? I know you mentioned that you have a goal for the number of stockists you would like to be stocked in by the end of 2021. But other than that, what’s next for males now?
Julia Christie:
Well, launching and growing in the US is a big thing for Nail Snail at the moment.
Catherine Langman:
That’s huge.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, it is. It is. It’s exciting. It’s very slow. I feel like it’s quite slow. But maybe because I expect everything to run at a million miles an hour. Maybe that’s why.
Catherine Langman:
You just ambush us.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, and with the whole… Coronavirus is still very much affecting the economy here and internationally, and in America too. This has so many people die and suffering that it affects the entire population. And every business has one or two people that have actually died in it. So, the far reaching effects are absolutely enormous. Absolutely enormous.
Catherine Langman:
It’s huge, isn’t it? Yeah.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, so things are much slower. And even with new products, and also with marketing new products, because it’s all well and good having 3,000 Nail Snails in our American based shipping warehouse, ready to be shipped out, if you don’t have the money to pay for marketing in order to market those now.
Catherine Langman:
Oh, yeah. And that’s a big country, I think a lot of Aussie brands that we work with in our agency, they want to go to the US because the market is huge. And obviously, the potential for growth is huge. But you do need to have the money to be able to do the marketing, because otherwise, nobody’s going to know you exist over there.
Julia Christie:
That’s right, and you just sit on the shelf. And that’s the thing, because it used to be the expos. I would have been at the ABC Las Vegas baby expo. I would have been at the Kind + Jugend expo in Germany. And in 2020, I had my flights booked to go to all those places. And that’s the thing. So, being there in person, talking to the parents on the ground, and really getting that face-to-face interaction, and doing the baby expos has a bit of a starting point, so you can educate people. That’s been-
Catherine Langman:
Hopefully, that’ll be back soon. Probably not next year, though, by the looks of things.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, I think it’ll take another couple of years.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Julia Christie:
But it’s getting those those videos, that great content that is clear. It shows exactly how it works, that you’ve got two or three different takes on how the Nail Snail actually works, so that people can really understand. And you’re fighting against that, oh, that looks too good to be true. That idea that, oh, this is false advertising. It’s not really going to be that easy. No, it actually is. We have 100-
Catherine Langman:
The thing is you’ve got so many happy customers who can, hopefully, share a little bit of that for you now. So, that definitely helps get past that attitude, I think.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, I’ve got 100% five star reviews on Google, 4.9 on Facebook, I think. That might have bumped up to five, and 100% five star on eBay as well. So-
Catherine Langman:
Well, you can’t argue with that, can you?
Julia Christie:
It can’t get much better than that. I think we finally got 4.2 stars on Amazon, though, which I haven’t quite worked out why.
Catherine Langman:
Well, do you know what? I heard a statistic the other day that on Amazon, they’ve actually done some research that Amazon listings that don’t have five star ratings outsell ones that do, even for the same products. So, keep it like that for Amazon, I would say. I know we all want to be perfect, but for some reason, that seems to work better on Amazon, so there you go.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, and I think it comes from that idea that, oh, this is too good to be true.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, probably.
Julia Christie:
I think if all five stars, oh, that can’t be right. But I think it actually is important to have one or two unhappy customers-
Catherine Langman:
And leaving them there. Don’t be ashamed about it.
Julia Christie:
And leaving them there, yeah.
Catherine Langman:
It’s just human nature, really.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, absolutely. And that’s the thing, because you can’t respond on Amazon, whereas you can on Facebook and eBay and Google, and you can say, “Hey, I see that you’re unhappy. Let me help you.” And I think other customers just want to see that there was some help offered-
Catherine Langman:
Yes, I agree.
Julia Christie:
…in order to, yeah. I think that’s almost more important than the negative review itself, is showing that, hey, I’m here to help you. Let me sell the product for you. And actually enjoy doing that now. The first negative review, I cried, oh, no. But now, I actually quite like, okay, great. How can I send this around to this person? One of the funniest ones we just got recently was someone emailing saying, “We bought this, and it’s now three years ago, and we used it on our child, and didn’t like it, and got mad and threw it in the bin.”
Catherine Langman:
Three years ago, okay.
Julia Christie:
Yeah. “Now we want to try again, because they haven’t found anything else. Send us a free Nail Snail.”
Catherine Langman:
What? Okay.
Julia Christie:
No please, no proof of purchase, no-
Catherine Langman:
That’s hilarious. Oh, wow.
Julia Christie:
No reaching out in the first place. Because I replied with, look, I appreciate you reaching out. I wish you’d reached out three years ago, and I would have been able to help you, and you would have been fine now. But I’m not just going to give you a free one, especially because you weren’t very nice to me.
Catherine Langman:
That’s really-
Julia Christie:
You didn’t say please or thank you.
Catherine Langman:
Oh, dear.
Julia Christie:
Just like, well, okay, and you need proof of purchase. You can’t just say you bought one. You’ve got to actually have-
Catherine Langman:
It’s not very believable.
Julia Christie:
Sorry, but… I’m here to help you when you buy the next one. So, yeah, and I think people expect more from small businesses than big businesses too.
Catherine Langman:
Probably, yeah.
Julia Christie:
Yeah.
Catherine Langman:
Especially-
Julia Christie:
Because when I bought my clippers-
Catherine Langman:
…when it’s online, right? It’s a bit anonymous.
Julia Christie:
Yeah. I bought the clippers, then I cut Emmett. I didn’t call or email Safety 1st and say, “Refund me my money.” I just went, “Oh, I’m terrible,” and, and stopped using it. And even now, people don’t ask for a refund from big companies. They go to little companies for refunds. And they’re well within their rights to, but I just, I find it really interesting.
Catherine Langman:
Look, I think it’s probably because a lot of smaller companies capitulate very easily. And I think a lot of consumers know that now. So, it’s an easy win, probably. Maybe that’s a little bit of a negative view from my perspective.
Julia Christie:
Or it might be really easy to contact a small business.
Catherine Langman:
That too.
Julia Christie:
It’s easy to go, “Okay, where did I get my Nail Snail from? Oh, here’s the Instagram page. I can message them.”
Catherine Langman:
That too.
Julia Christie:
And that’s a new thing with social media too. We’re very accessible.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, I think that the lesson for small businesses is to… These are, as you’ve been describing, the opportunities to turn a customer around into a fan, and just treat it like that sort of a customer service opportunity. And don’t take it personally.
Julia Christie:
Yeah, definitely. You can’t keep everyone happy. Not everyone loves Apple iPhones. There’s millions of people that hate them.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, don’t take it personally.
Julia Christie:
There’s millions people that hate Nike. There’s millions of people that hate Coca Cola. These are all these huge, established, very popular brands.
Catherine Langman:
And yes, Amazon too, and I’m pretty sure Jeff Bezos is not staying awake at night worrying about it.
Julia Christie:
He’s not crying into a pillow at all. He’s going off to space.
Catherine Langman:
No, he’s going off to space.
Julia Christie:
On the backs of his workers.
Catherine Langman:
And on that wonderful note, thank you so much for sharing all of your story.
Julia Christie:
You are so welcome.
Catherine Langman:
Lots of nuggets of gold in there and a fabulous story. So, really appreciate you sharing that with us today, Julia.
Julia Christie:
You are more than welcome. It has been an absolute pleasure. And if anyone wants to reach out at all, my email is hello@nail-snail.com, or you can visit the website, http://www.nail-snail.com. Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, I think, yeah, Pinterest, all of the above, feel free to reach out. And if you have any questions, feel free to ask away.
Catherine Langman:
That’s fabulous. We will absolutely share all of those contact details on our podcast show notes page as well. And I highly encourage you all to go and check Julia out. I think you’ve got your own page as well now, don’t you? The Julia Christie?
Julia Christie:
I do. So, on Instagram, yes, Julia Christie CEO. Although Facebook shut me down. Facebook shut down my Julia Christie CEO page for impersonating me. I’m like, “Oh, it’s actually me.”
Catherine Langman:
Oh, dear, that is pretty funny.
Julia Christie:
I’m actually me. And Facebook has shut it down. And I’ve been battling with that too. So, there’s another fun one.
Catherine Langman:
Oh, fun, fun, fun. Definitely, listeners, go and check her out. And thank you again, Julia, for joining us on the show. It’s been wonderful.
Julia Christie:
You are so welcome.