Catherine Langman:
Well, hello there. It’s Catherine Langman here, back with another episode of the Productpreneur Success Podcast. Today on the show, we are going to dive back into all things Facebook advertising. As I sit here and record this episode, it’s early April. Any of you listeners who have been advertising, either yourselves or having someone help you with your ads on Facebook, would know that there’s been a bunch of changes that have been rolling out on the platform, many of which were announced at the start of the year and have to do with Facebook’s response to the Apple iOS 14 update.
Catherine Langman:
This really is a response in regard to Apple’s new privacy policy, and there are lots of impacts on our Facebook advertising in the way that we need to set up things in our ads manager and also to think about our ad strategy, so the communication side of things, the content and the creative as a result of all of these changes. I do also want to say if you are noticing some funny stuff going on on the platform, hang in there, just hang in tight for the moment. Things do often go a tiny bit wobbly when they roll out changes, or any platform rolls out changes. It will inevitably result in the odd bug or two.
Catherine Langman:
Hopefully, nothing more drastic than that that we all have to ride out for a little while before things restabilize and get back to a new normal. Before we dive into the episode, so today’s episode is really going to be about how you can get more clicks on your Facebook ads, and the key elements behind highly profitable e-commerce Facebook ads, especially moving forward in what will become our new normal, thanks to all these changes that are happening. Before we dive into that topic, I just want to rehash what is actually changing on the platform, and in regards to this Apple iOS 14 update and how we are navigating this situation with regards to your Facebook advertising.
Catherine Langman:
Basically what’s happening is Facebook’s making some changes on the platform to comply with Apple’s new privacy policy. In a nutshell, this update has been instigated by Apple, whose new operating system update. iOS 14 point something rather, is designed to give platform users the control over what user data of theirs is collected by other apps. In the past, all our browsing behavior on the internet was tracked by default using cookies and pixels, and we could opt out. As users we could opt out if we wanted to, but most people pretty much didn’t bother to really look at those settings.
Catherine Langman:
Platforms like Facebook and Google and any other platform were able to indeed track and collect a lot of data about user behavior. As advertisers on the platform, that was amazing because we could get really, really super granular with our retargeting and we could get very granular in terms of the purchase intent of the audiences and really be able to pinpoint who would buy our products, which the end result of that means that we become a bit lazy as communicators. We rely on that really minute and detailed data to be able to just show our products to the people who are really going to jump on and buy it, right? Super easy.
Catherine Langman:
But now users need to actually opt in to be tracked, and that upfront prompt is likely going to mean that a lot of users will click ask app not to track. The outcome of this change will mean that platforms like Facebook and Google and all the others will not be able to attract or collect as much detailed information about user behavior. The impact of this will have on advertisers on all of these platforms, but Facebook is what I’m talking about today, is going to mean that we don’t have the same detailed user data for things like retargeting ads or really pinpointing the specific purchase intent audiences because these platforms will be prevented from collecting as much of that data.
Catherine Langman:
It will also impact the reporting capability of Facebook’s ads manager as well, given that the platform won’t be able to track all of the standard event or conversions as has been the case in recent years. Of course, similar impacts are differently going to be felt on other platforms like Google and Snapchat and Tik Tok and all the other things as well. All these platforms are going to need to be complying with this update from Apple. That’s in a nutshell, really. One thing that I keep smiling about is really this is going to be taking Facebook advertising as a strategy.
Catherine Langman:
We’re back to how things were before all of that really detailed data tracking became possible. I am in some respects very excited because it does mean that all the successful advertisers on the platform are going to need to become much better communicators and much more creative in terms of the text and the images and the video and the other content, and the way we try and attract and engage our audience is going to need to be a lot more sophisticated and clever, and not just lazily sticking a photo of our product in front of someone who’s likely to buy it, right?
Catherine Langman:
On the flip side, of course, it’s going to be frustrating because we can’t just have a fallback to that position of advertising and we can’t rely as much on the detailed retargeting audiences that we may have always used. There’s definitely going to be ways and means to get around a lot of that retargeting restrictions, but they’ll still be there. Then of course, the reporting side of things is going to be limited as well. One note on that reporting, for instance, in the past we were able to collect and report on performance metrics over quite a long period of time, and now we’re going to be restricted to a maximum of seven days.
Catherine Langman:
For any of you who sell low priced impulse buy type items, you guys are going to be fine because your customers are likely to buy on the spot anyway. But for those of you, we have several clients in this boat who sell very expensive products that have a much longer nurture period and sales funnel period, that’s going to … It’ll look like you’re not making as much in terms of return on investment and sales, revenue, et cetera, from your ads. But really you are, it’s just that it’s taken a few ads and a few weeks and maybe even months to get somebody through that consideration phase before they’re likely to buy.
Catherine Langman:
We need to find ways of maybe shifting our mindset, but also shifting our strategy to really respond to this new situation. That’s the current affairs, so to speak. Let’s move on into why we would still want to advertise on Facebook and really talk about how things are not going to be working and then what the purpose of the ads are, and move into what the key elements are of [inaudible 00:08:19] profitable e-commerce Facebook ads. Is Facebook advertising still worth it? I think that that is probably a question on many people’s tongues at the moment, or maybe at the back of your mind, maybe even at the front of your mind.
Catherine Langman:
Certainly every single time big changes are rolling out on the platform, and the platform becomes a little bit more unstable for a little while. It is really frustrating. I can totally understand that there’s a temptation to throw the towel in and ditch it and go off and do some other sort of marketing. But in a nutshell, I definitely believe that it is still worth advertising on the platform if your audience is on there. We need to remember that we all still want to get our brands in front of our potential customers, and Facebook still has this enormous captive audience of users who are active on the platform for a significant amount of time each day.
Catherine Langman:
In fact, current stats are there’s something like 2.8 billion monthly active users, vast majority of whom are spending a significant amount of time on the platform every day. That is a really powerful step right there, and I think as a brand owner, if your audience is on this platform, you need to move past those personal irritations that we have in using the platform and recognize that there is a massive potential there for our brand to really engage with that audience and attract them to our website and to our brand. Introduce your brand to them and to get new people to buy from you.
Catherine Langman:
That’s my personal opinion, and professional opinion, of course. But I think the next step too is as I was saying, we have this opportunity to think a lot more strategically about the marketing messages that will be most engaging and meaningful to our customers, rather than just relying on Facebook’s algorithm to put that image of your products in front of your buyers. Then rather than just thinking maybe about, oh, I’m going to put ads on that platform and on that platform and on that platform, and then I need to have a strategy for the content that I posed and I need to have a strategy for my email newsletters, and for this, that and the other, right?
Catherine Langman:
Rather than doing that, what we can do is think a lot more high level and a lot more strategically about the overarching marketing strategy, and what kind of communications that we need to be sharing, whether it’s product launches or promotions or anything else newsworthy that you can talk about to your customers and potential customers. We want to think more high level about that, and then be sharing those marketing messages via all our channels, including paid ads, but also email, blogs, collaborations, and anywhere else that we share content for our customers to engage with.
Catherine Langman:
There’s a variety of platforms, but there’s also other ways that we can do it, whether you do things like expos, trade shows, markets, working, selling in-stores, wholesalers and all of this other stuff. There’s so many options, right? As the lazier marketers fall off the platform because they can’t figure that out, the brands that will succeed on the platform moving forwards will be the ones cultivating much more engaging ads that draw prospects from the platform to them with that higher quality creative, and what you’re communicating and how you’re communicating it, and draw them to your website and onto your own email lists or into your own social communities.
Catherine Langman:
This is really the way that we want to be moving forward. And how you need to think about, I guess, mitigating the changes that are going to be rolling out. How do Facebook ads not work? I want to touch on this before we talk about the key elements that make Facebook ads work profitably for online stores. I guess, as business owners, we often like to think that everyone who needs a product like ours will automatically be interested when they see our ad. Be real with yourself, and you don’t have to tell me whether that’s been you, but if it is, then you need to acknowledge it, right?
Catherine Langman:
We talk our product out in the hope that people will recognize our product as being exactly right to suit our needs. Honestly, I see this so often. It’s like here’s my amazing widget, it does this, it does that, it does the other, it’s got this feature, it’s got that feature. We’re talking it up. But I guess in doing that, we are expecting that the customer is going to recognize that as the solution for their need, right? But that is just not how advertising works and it’s not how people make purchase decisions either. Most people are not logging on to Facebook or any content channel with the primary intention of making a purchase.
Catherine Langman:
Obviously, there’s other commercial platforms like Amazon and eBay and even Google Search. People typically go to those platforms, when they are ready to buy and when they know what they want, right? But when people don’t know what they want yet or they’re going on to a platform like Facebook or Instagram, which is a social media platform, people go on to these platforms to procrastinate mostly. We can’t just expect our potential customers to be sitting at their laptop or browsing on their smartphone on social media with their credit card in hand. It ain’t going to happen that way.
Catherine Langman:
This is why we need to give people something that they are interested in before we contemplate asking them to make a purchase decision. The bottom line is this, what looks like the fastest route to getting a purchase is in fact a direct line to losing the attention, not even gaining it in the first place, of the people that you want to reach and you simply won’t get the clicks. What is the purpose of your ad on social media, or ads, plural? I have to say here that too many advertisers, even now that I see on the platform, or platforms, Facebook and Instagram, they’re trying to do too much with their ad.
Catherine Langman:
Specifically, they’re trying to attract a cold audience and sell all-in-one ad. Fabulous if you can do that. But generally speaking, your ad campaigns are not going to work if you just are running a single ad. If the purpose of your Facebook ad is not necessarily to get the purchase initially, what is it? I want you to think of this as being a series of small actions or steps. Realistically, when you consider the sales process, and yes, I’m using the S word, I know lots of you guys and me in the past as well, you think sales is a dirty word, and I’m not a salesperson, I’m no good at sales, but we’re all in the business of selling if we are running an e-commerce brand, right?
Catherine Langman:
In the sales process, you need to think of it, you need to break it up into a series of small actions or steps, and each actionable steps that a customer goes through is like a small agreement. It’s a small yes along the way to a big yes, which is obviously to buy, right? Step one is that you need to be getting their attention. When you think about the way you use social media, typically we’re scrolling through the newsfeed and trying to entertain ourselves while we procrastinate from doing something else.
Catherine Langman:
We need to get their attention so that they stop scrolling their newsfeed long enough to look at your ad. Then the second step is for them to read the ad, or watch the video, if that’s what it is. The third step is for them to click on the ad. Once they’ve clicked on your ad and you’ve taken them to your website, then it’s up to your website to complete the process. There might be a couple of steps once they get to your website. They might purchase straightaway or they might sign up to your email list and then you might be able to retarget them or follow them up via email as well as retargeting ads before they purchase your product.
Catherine Langman:
Typically speaking, you are going to need to do that, right. If you are only going to run one ad, you are going to be leaving an enormous amount of potential on the table. Realistically, the purpose of your first ad, or any ad really, is to get the click, right? How do you do that? What are the core elements of a successful profitable e-commerce ad campaign? Really the first thing that we need to be thinking about are what’s going to stop people from scrolling the newsfeed. If you think about it, what stops you scrolling the newsfeed? It’s not whether the ad’s being perfectly targeted to you.
Catherine Langman:
It’s not what is written on the ad or anything like that. The first thing that you are going to notice, and for our ad to succeed, we need to be choosing images or video, what is the visual element of the ad? Because that is what’s going to capture our customer’s attention quickly as they are scrolling through their newsfeed. Bear in mind, too, that people are often pretty distracted or multitasking while they’re on Facebook. Anyone else is watching TV and checking out Facebook on their phone at the same time, or is that just me? I know, it’s not just me.
Catherine Langman:
There really are so many different ways that you can capture people’s attention. But we don’t want just anyone’s attention, we want our ideal customer’s attention. How do you do that with the visual element in your ad? I’m using the term visual element because obviously we can use images and we can use video. Those are the two options really. In terms of video, it could be an animated GIF or it could be an actual longer video that you’ve shot. The first thing to understand about selecting the visuals for your advertising is if your image sucks or your video sucks, your potential customer probably won’t even stop scrolling through their newsfeed long enough to notice it.
Catherine Langman:
I will say that over the last couple of years in particular when we had this amazing algorithm on Facebook that really did collect all of this minute amount of data that enabled us to pinpoint our exact purchasing audience and we literally could get lazy with the visuals, right? You could put images of your products in front of the right audience and they would probably buy. But that is not how it is working now and it’s not going to be working like that moving forwards. We need to be far more selective and intentional in choosing the visual elements for our ads so that we can entice our potential customers, our ideal customer to stop scrolling their newsfeed long enough to notice it.
Catherine Langman:
I like, at the moment, for this kind of first pulling the customer in type ad. We’re showing this ad to a cold audience, they don’t know yet. You need to engage and attract this new audience to you. I really love to try and use video at this point. Typically, we’re finding that video seems to do a really, really amazing job at getting that cold audience to stop scrolling the newsfeed. But again, it can’t just be any video. You don’t just want to show a boring video of your product without much creative storytelling in it. You do need to have a little bit of storytelling in it.
Catherine Langman:
I saw a fantastic one recently. Have you guys ever come across this thing called a Shakti mat? Basically, what it is is an acupressure mat. It looks like this oblong rectangle mat, and it’s got all these little spiky things, not pinned but plastic spiky button things all over it. The idea is that you lay on it and those spiky things will press into your acupressure points on your back. It’s not overly comfortable when you first lie on it. But it really is amazing at relaxing any tension in your muscles, and I love to lie in it at the end of the day, especially if I’ve been to the gym in the morning and my muscles are a little bit sore like they are right now.
Catherine Langman:
The ad that I saw it, so I already own this thing, but I was looking into buying another one for other members in my family. I was looking at this ad. Isn’t that funny? I was already thinking I need to get another one, and then I suddenly see these ads. There you go. It was a video, and it had a video of all these people who were just lying down on their Shakti mat for the first time, and there’s this facial expression that you get when it hurts a little bit when you first lie on it, and then all of a sudden, your muscles start relaxing and you see this look of relaxation on the faces.
Catherine Langman:
Then after you’ve leaned on it for 20 minutes, you get up and you’ve got this thing called Shakti rash on your back, but basically it’s like a bit red on your back where you’ve been lying on it. This video ad, it was telling that story and it was just showing those reactions of lots of different people as they were laying on it and talking through the story of what the product is and how it works and the results that people enjoy afterwards. That’s really good visual storytelling, and it definitely works. It got me to purchase, that’s for sure. You can also achieve this sort of visual storytelling using images.
Catherine Langman:
You don’t have to use video. In actual fact, it’s a good idea to test both options and see what’s going to work the best. Obviously, you can use still images as well. But in that case, you need to be thinking about lifestyle images overplaying product shots. Applying product shot is what you want to have on your online store. You can have different views and you can see all the detail of the product and all of that kind of stuff, but that’s not going to sell it to a cold audience. When you’re showing an ad to people who don’t know you yet, you need to be drawing the mean with the storytelling type images.
Catherine Langman:
Lifestyle images typically show your product being used in context, and it definitely makes it easier for your potential customers to see themselves in the images. Try and think of it a little bit like that. Think about ways that you can tell stories with your lifestyle images or with your video. The second component or key element of your ads and getting your ads to work is going to be the audience’s that you show them to. This one definitely needs to be a big part of your thought process and your planning and execution. Again, in the past we had so much more data available to us that we could select in setting up the ads because Facebook was able to track a lot more.
Catherine Langman:
But now we really need to be relying a whole lot more on researching various different kind of interests to find the audiences that are likely to respond to ads. Have a think about what the interests and the values and maybe the other brands and the other sorts of media or services or maybe even key persons of interest. Who is your customer? Who else is your customer going to be following or shopping from or consuming content from at the same time that they’re likely to be buying from you? There’s a couple of ways to really think about this sort of audience research and audience targeting.
Catherine Langman:
At the end of the day, you can shave a lot of cost off of your ads by showing them to more of the right people, right? Ads can become very, very expensive if you show them to the wrong audience because then they’re unlikely to respond and click on the ad, right? There’s a few ways to think about audience research. The first thing that you want to do is really think about the customer avatar. We went through an exercise, or my team did, recently with a new client, and it was a product for new mums and pregnant women. When we say, “Well, who’s your ideal customer,” and the response was something like, “All new mums,” that’s really never going to be the case.
Catherine Langman:
We have to refine it a lot more than that. I can think back to my own first business, which was a modern cloth nappy brand, and I went through that same thought process. It’s like, “Well, of course, anyone who’s having a baby needs to use nappies,” right? But of course not everyone who has a baby is interested in using reusable nappies. Eventually, I realized that. How can you refine that customer avatar and use that to help your audience research process? In that business, that first business of mine, I was going through and realizing, well, that ideal customer is likely to be about to drop from two incomes to one income, whilst the mum goes on maternity leave after having given birth.
Catherine Langman:
That’s typically the usual process in Australia anyway. Oftentimes, budgeting and saving money is an important thing for interest for that new mom. That was one thing. Another thing obviously being a reusable product, the parents were generally interested in the environment and the impact of the consumer choices. That was another part to our customer avatar. Then further to that, oftentimes we found that our ideal customer was also interested in what’s termed natural parenting practices. So things like baby wearing, for instance, and breastfeeding. They were two really common practices by our ideal customer. All of a sudden, I could start to research some audiences that will likely to contain my ideal customer.
Catherine Langman:
There were interests in saving money and budgeting, so we could find interests and pages and brands that they might also be buying from or following or googling to pursue that interest. Same with baby wearing and breastfeeding and eco-friendly interests as well. You think about where does your customer shop before they come to you? What else are they buying at the same time that they’re buying from you, and where might they buy after they’ve been buying with you? For us, it was things lik interest in the Australian Breastfeeding Association, and maybe being involved with and following blogs like Stay-at-Home-Mom, which was all about being thrifty and saving money and things like that.
Catherine Langman:
Then afterwards, they were generally going to be going and shopping for their baby’s carrier or sling, whatever you want to call it. All of a sudden … Then around that, of course, there was all the media that they were also consuming as well as shopping for those sorts of products. You can start to research all of these different interests and values and find the audience’s that your ideal customer is likely to sit within or reside within, and you can start targeting your ads towards those audiences. That really is the second core element that I want to talk about.
Catherine Langman:
We want to talk about the visuals first, because that’s what’s going to stop people from scrolling the newsfeed. But secondly and equally as important, right? The audiences that you’re going to show the ads to. Because if you’re not showing the ads to the right audience, it won’t matter how awesome the visual element is or the creative is. The wrong person is never going to click on the ad, right? Audiences are incredibly important, and just want to get you thinking in terms of that ideal customer avatar and how you can tease out some of those interests and audiences so that you can find them.
Catherine Langman:
Then the next core element, the third really important core element is your irresistible offering. There’s a few components that make this up. Number one is how are you phrasing what it is that you sell? Are you asking customers “Do you want to buy a mattress?” Or are you asking them, “Do you want a good night’s sleep?” Are you asking them, “Do you want to buy a photo frame?” Or you asking them, “Do you want to preserve and display your most treasured and precious moments?” Do you want to buy healthy food cookbook or do you want to transform your health and wellness and gain more energy? I mean, I could go on and on and on.
Catherine Langman:
Hopefully, you get the picture here. You really want to be nailing this product value statement at the end of the day and really speaking … really phrasing your texts, the copy in your ad, as well as all the visual elements as well, so that you are communicating to that desired end result and really talking to that and showing them how your product is going to help them to get that. Because if you speak to the product itself, here’s my mattress, here’s my photo frame, here’s my cookbook, you are requiring the audience to figure out that that thing is the solution to what they’re actually looking for, right?
Catherine Langman:
Whereas if you speak to that emotional outcome, or if you speak to the outcome or the transformation, the customer establishes that emotional connection with that, not with the product itself. When you can really speak to that, the emotional side of things, that’s when you’re really going to shift the needle and be able to start selling more of your wares. What you need to not do is sell the widget because that’s the logical way that the brain might work. This is not what people buy. If your ads are all about the product, or they’re all about click here to buy this now, you’re just making it really easy for your potential customers to just keep scrolling, right?
Catherine Langman:
Instead, you want to be selling that transformation, really speaking to the outcome or the benefits that your customer’s really looking to experience because that’s how they become emotionally invested and more likely to then click. Then in terms of getting the click, in terms of the irresistible offering, it’s one thing to present it like that, but then obviously you want to get the click. It is really easy to assume that everybody knows how ads work or how to buy online. But it’s not always the way, unfortunately. A pretty easy way to improve your results and get more clicks is literally to tell people what they need to do next. Right?
Catherine Langman:
What action are you actually asking people to take? You don’t want to just rely on a button to communicate this for you. Obviously, anyone who’s looked at any ads on social media will see that they generally use a shop now button underneath the video or the images. But what you can also do is to write a short action statement that you include in the text part of the ad. It might be click here to experience the best night’s sleep, or whatever the product is that you’re trying to sell. You want to speak to that outcome, as I mentioned, or make it a little bit fun or interesting, but not obscure.
Catherine Langman:
Don’t be so creative with your words that nobody knows what you’re talking about. But definitely you want to give them an action statement, and then put a URL in there to take them to your website so that they can go and buy. All right? But then I need to also talk about … Because this is where I think a lot of people fall down with their ads, is they think that selling more products is about the ads. If I can just get some ads up, then I’m going to make a lot of money, I’m going to sell all our product. But as equally as important as the ad is the website.
Catherine Langman:
What you need to be doing in terms of thinking about or ensuring that your ads actually convert is to track the traffic all the way through your shopping cart. You need to expect that as you spend money on ads, that as you get more traffic through your website full stop, you will start to uncover parts of the website that may be bottlenecks or sticking points, and you can experience a little bit of drop off maybe. That’s not the fault of the end, really. When that’s happening on your website, don’t take it as an offense or that anything is drastically wrong.
Catherine Langman:
This is a normal part of building an e-commerce business, is to really understand the flow of traffic through your website and to start optimizing your website so that you can improve that flow of traffic through the website so that gradually you increase the volume of that traffic that actually achieves purchase. Really make it a habit of yours that you track the performance of each step of the shopping cart process, so that you can start to see, well, where are people dropping off? Are people dropping off at a higher than average rate here? Is there something that I can do to make my product pages better, for instance?
Catherine Langman:
When you are trying to improve little bits of the website as you go along, don’t change everything at once. But also try and put your effort where it’s more likely to shift the needle. Don’t fuss too much about teeny tiny details. Start by tweaking and changing the things that are a little bit more obvious, maybe images or headlines. Or say, for instance, it’s your product page. If you’ve got a lot of people dropping off the product page, how could you make that better? Maybe the add to cart buttons too far down and you need to be able to shift it up so that people can actually see how to add to cart.
Catherine Langman:
Or maybe you need to go through your website on your mobile phone because you can see through your metrics that on the mobile phone traffic is dropping off. Maybe the experience on the mobile phone is not quite as good as it is on desktop. As you move through or as you grow as a business, you can start to gradually improve the ability of your website to convert. As you do that, your ads will also start to improve in terms of profitability. Another thing that I definitely see a correlation with is if you start to get the email automation in place, so automatically growing your email list with an offer that is enticing and that actually converts.
Catherine Langman:
Again, this is where you have to start tracking your metrics to see if what you have is actually working, right? But generally speaking, we see ads perform better when there is email in place as well. Because I guess the expectation that somebody, that everybody should buy from you the first time they come to your website is a bit naive. Whereas if you accept the fact that people generally need to see your website and see your brand and interact with your brand several times before they buy, then it makes sense to have email automation in place because that’s going to take care of some of that follow up and bring people back to buy.
Catherine Langman:
Generally speaking, you will find people will buy within the first two weeks of coming across your website. That gives you a little bit of a window of opportunity with retargeting ads, as well as using email to follow them up and to bring them back. I guess, just to summarize that last point there about the irresistible offering, this is about presenting what we want them to buy in a way that we are really speaking to the outcome, the benefits, that they want to experience and doing that in a way that the customer is going to be emotionally invested in and emotionally engaged with what you’re offering rather than just presenting a product and expecting or assuming that they will figure out that that’s the right thing for them, right?
Catherine Langman:
It’s the way we’re presenting the offering, then it’s giving them the next step so that we … What action are we asking people to take? So we’re telling them exactly what to do to get this desired end result that they want. Then we’re making sure that we’re following that traffic through the website and ensuring that the website part of the whole traffic and sales system is actually going to help convert them as well. There you have it, the three core elements of our profitable e-commerce Facebook ads. Number one, the images speak 1,000 words, number two, our audiences and really researching the audiences to suit our customer avatar, and then number three, the irresistible offering.
Catherine Langman:
I hope you’ve enjoyed that episode. I hope that’s got the creative juices flowing a little bit for you. Obviously, if you would like some help with your advertising, I have an amazing team here who would be happy to help you. But we also have our free Facebook group, Rockstar Productpreneur Facebook group that you can also find some educational resources for free in there, as well as the support of and networking capabilities from the thousands of people that are in there, or e-commerce brand owners and myself and my team are in there as well. Hope you’ve enjoyed that, and I look forward to being with you on next week’s podcast as well. Bye for now.