Catherine Langman:

Well, hello there. It’s Catherine Langman back with another episode of the Productpreneur Success Podcast. And today on the show, I’m really excited to welcome a guest, Denise Duffield Thomas. Many of you will have come across her. She has a global business. She’s a money mentor for entrepreneurs who are working online and endeavoring to make money online and really trying to change the world with our businesses. She works with entrepreneurs to help them release fears and blocks around money and be okay about creating first-class lives for themselves. And I’ll give you a bit of insight in just a second about what we’re going to talk about on today’s episode. But before we dive in, I just want to ask you, have you ever felt guilty about maybe being ambitious in your business, guilty about being really ambitious in your business?

I know certainly here in Australia, that it’s quite a common attitude to nip the tall poppies in the bud, cut the tall poppies down. We don’t want to see people getting too big for their boots, sort of thing. So it can be quite a fearful thing to admit that you have some big goals and ambitions in your business. But also, what about this idea of being able to make more money doing less? For me, I certainly started both my businesses because I really wanted to be able to achieve more with my career and do so in a way that was a lot more flexible around my kids. So after I had my children, was when I started my first business. And so I don’t want to work a billion hours a week and it definitely was quite a challenging thing, at least in the early days, to be okay with earning really good money without working myself to the absolute bone.

But it’s so ingrained in many of us, relating working hard to earn the money and if we don’t work hard, we don’t deserve it. So that’s a fairly common thing. But another question for you, do you have fears around going all in and your business, investing in that business success and having the confidence to move ahead and I guess know deep down that you’re going to make it work in your business profitably. So these are some of the fears and blocks around money that Denise and I talk about. We dive into a whole bunch of different money mindset related questions and struggles that I know are very common to many of you. So let’s dive into the episode and welcome Denise to the show.

Catherine:

So, today on the show, I’m super excited to welcome Denise Duffield-Thomas to our show. Welcome, Denise.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Thank you so much for having me.

Catherine:

Yeah, it’s so good to have you here. And we’re going to really dive into some stuff, all about money mindset and some of the difficulties, and fears, and frustrations that so many of us struggle with when we’re getting moving in our businesses. And as I just quickly mentioned before, our audience are all largely women who are starting online businesses to sell products, physical products, mostly ones they’ve invented and making themselves, but also just your typical e-commerce retail store as well.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yeah, amazing.

Catherine:

And I have to say what motivated me to reach out to you and see if you might be happy to have a chat with us is I was rereading a blog of yours that I’ve read before, but it was about how much help you actually have in the home.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yes.

Catherine:

That’s such a good blog. I really, really love that one. And I think that I’m at a point now where none of this stuff… I’m totally happy to own up to having all of that kind of help. But when you’re in the early days, you feel so guilty about spending money on things like that. And, yeah, there’s so much guilt and fear all tied up in it.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Oh my god. We could literally do the whole episode on that because I’m so passionate about women having their own businesses, having their own money. And unfortunately, the practicalities of having a home if you’ve got kids, just the logistics of laundry, and food, and all that kind of stuff can really derail women in business. And so, I think that’s just as important as talking about any other aspect of business, strategy, or marketing because without that, it really sucks away your energy. It sucks away your life force, and then you have nothing left for your business.

Catherine:

Yeah, totally. I think we should definitely all aim to have that keyless lifestyle. But I got so motivated after rereading that blog right before Christmas, I’m like, “Right. 2021, my goal is to have a housekeeper.” And I literally told some people I met, this lovely Scottish couple, our new next-door neighbors, I told them at the Christmas party, and the guy goes, “Oh, I’m disappointed in you”.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Why?

Catherine:

I don’t know.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

What?

Catherine:

That’s not what women do, I suppose. I don’t know.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Oh my god. That is the weirdest thing. But sometimes people ask me who’s my inspiration for that, or my role model for that. And I honestly say it is my granddad because he did nothing around the house and he felt zero guilt for it. He would come home and he had his own man cave, basically. And he could watch whatever he wanted on TV. He had his chair. We couldn’t disturb him. He had his newspaper. And he just expected that food and clean laundry would appear, and it did. And so, when I think of feeling guilty, I’m like, “Well, I’m just going to take a leaf out of his book and not feel guilty at all.”

Catherine:

Yep, absolutely. I love it. So, not that we need to talk all about food and laundry today, but definitely one of the biggest things that I see our clients and students really struggle with is this concept of aiming to go big. It’s like a lot of fear about really aiming big in their business. It’s a fear of maybe about being seen. It’s a fear of delegating and being the boss, and I think maybe also a fear that aiming big means that people will see you as being greedy perhaps, as opposed to maybe some of the positive flip sides of that kind of a business. So, what kind of tips do you reckon you could give those sorts of business owners?

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yeah, I think even just the wording sometimes of going big, going hard, it can be a very masculine way of doing business. And so, sometimes it might be semantics, but sometimes it’s the wording that doesn’t necessarily resonate with women because we don’t want to kill our competition. We don’t want to crush anything. And I actually really advocate for a more easeful path of giving yourself permission to do the things that feel good, that feel easy for you, even if other people don’t agree.

And so, when it comes though to feeling the fear of what success might bring, I think that’s such a valid conversation and it’s worth digging deep because I feel like everyone’s got their own individual flavor of fear, of what that would mean if you were really successful on your own terms. And I really want to put that caveat on it, on your own terms.

Do you think that people wouldn’t like you or they feel like you weren’t down to earth? Or do you worry that it would make you a bad mother, or a bad partner, or a bad sister, or a bad daughter even? It’s really worth exploring what those things are. And I can tell you for me, mine that follows me around year in, year out, it’s like, “Oh, people won’t think that I’m down to earth and friendly.” That’s one side of it. The other side of it is I’ve still got this story that working hard is noble or whatever, but it’s like, if it’s too easy, I’ll lose my resilience. And so, I’ve got this story about resiliency and poverty that being rich makes you too soft and too comfortable.

Catherine:

Oh interesting.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

So, everyone’s got their own. Yeah, everyone’s got their own little flavor of what that could be.

Catherine:

I definitely think that the idea of letting it be easy is a tough one, especially I think for a lot of women who are so… I don’t know. What’s the word? We really are often brought up to put other people first and do all the things. But this idea of letting it be easy is kind of so uncomfortable for a lot of us, really. It’s like you equate working hard with being rewarded from a young age.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Well, absolutely. And I think this is a conversation that is going to shift a lot over the next couple of decades as younger people become entrepreneurs. People, like my kids, have grown up watching other kids… I mean, they don’t really understand the concept that they’re making lots of money, but from just opening toys on YouTube.

Catherine:

Oh, wow. Yeah, true.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yeah. And like my kids have seen my books in bookstores and so they’re just like, “Well, yeah, you can just write a book and put it in a bookstore.” Like, no big deal. And it’s so different but where for our generation, we still grew up, like if your family had a business, especially a product-based business, it was… Oh my god. Imagine starting a product-based business in the ’80s living in a small town somewhere? It would’ve just been so hard.

Catherine:

So, so hard.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

It’s such a minefield, such a massive investment, physically, mentally, emotionally. So different to the opportunities we have today. I remember I didn’t really have that many entrepreneurs in my family, but occasionally I met someone who did and their garage would be full of stuff or they had to have a physical location. And nowadays, you don’t necessarily need any of that. You can literally outsource every aspect of your product-based business. And so, can you see how just even that is so weird to our brains if you grew up seeing… It’s just weird. Whereas each generation now, it’s going to be just normal that you can do that.

Catherine:

Yeah, they’re exposed to it.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

But I mean, I didn’t have a mobile phone until I was at university.

Catherine:

No, absolutely. Most of my family were academics and professionals like doctors and that sort of thing. And so, I grew up thinking that that’s how you had to be to have a worthy sort of career and earn money, doing good things in the world and blah, blah, blah. It was just so difficult to actually leave a lot of that aside and go, “Well, actually, I don’t want to be an engineer or anything like that. That bores me silly. I want to do this. It’s really creative.” But, yeah, I had to leave a lot of those weird mindsets behind.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Well, what’s interesting about that is if you grew up hearing, even just so unconsciously, billable hours, this concept of billable hours, that’s again a direct link between time and money, between effort and money. And also I’m guessing too that, well, especially back then, white-collar professionals, they had to go into the office. You could maybe have phone calls with people. We didn’t have Zoom. You couldn’t have probably clients all around the world, around the country. And so, that’s the same message as someone whose parents maybe had three jobs, and they had to work really hard, blue-collar workers. It’s so fascinating how this work hard thing is so ingrained in us from TV, from movies, from even just the culture that we’re brought up in. So, I’ve got a global business so I see different cultures deal with this concept of work hard. So, obviously, Americans, it’s just such a hustle culture.

Catherine:

It is, yeah.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

And so, it feels kind of a bit lazy to find shortcuts and it feels like maybe you won’t be respected for being a hustler. What I find though in Australia is it’s like you have to be so modest about your success and you can’t be seen to be ambitious. So, you can work hard as long as you don’t make a big song and dance about it.

Catherine:

Yeah.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yeah. But equally, it can’t be too easy.

Catherine:

Yeah. Gosh, we’re all caught between a rock and a hard place, aren’t we?

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Definitely. And I just want everyone listening to understand this. It is a foreign concept for our lizard brain in a way to make money and it can be easy and leveraged. And you might not have had any role models at all, especially female role models. Right? My mom, she was a single mom so she took on very low-paid part-time work that she could do with no qualifications. She had me at 17. So, I remember growing up, she worked in hospitals and cleaning, and things like that. My grandmother didn’t have a full-time job either. She had to have little part-time jobs or she took in sewing. And so, most women I meet, it’s very rare that they have one, let alone two generations of role models where they can see what it’s like for a woman to earn her own money. And so, can we just let ourselves off the hook a little bit? We are the in-between generation that we just don’t know how to do it. It feels weird. It feels foreign. It feels unsafe. So, we’ve just got to let ourselves off the hook a little bit.

Catherine:

So, what are some of the things that you’ve been able to do to kind of learn how to get past that? Because I guess it’s one thing to hit that upper ceiling in your mind of what you think’s possible, but obviously, you’ve moved past it and I know that you help hundreds, probably thousands of women to do the same.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yeah. So, I mean, I’ve had over 7,000 people in my bootcamp now, my Money Bootcamp. I’m a really practical Virgo and a lot of mindset work for me didn’t seem very practical. I was like, “Do you just wish harder? I don’t understand what to do.” And so, I really like to try and break it down. But it is mindset work because everything that you can do in your business, you can just google. Right? You can google and you can DIY most things. And obviously, it’s smart to work with a mentor, such as yourself, and buy a course, and things like that. But if you don’t have your mindset in alignment to that, it’s always going to feel hard. And you’ve seen this. I’ve seen this as well with students. Sometimes it’s like, I used to do business coaching, I’d go, “Just do this thing. Just do a bit.” Yeah, just do one, two, and three steps and they just cannot do it.

And so, there is real merit in connecting the dots of your past experiences because that awareness can unlock action in lots of ways. So, connecting the dots to your experiences, to things that your parents have said about money, and digging deep to find out why it is unsafe for you to move forward. So, I know it doesn’t sound very practical, but one of the things you can do is write an inventory of all of the messages and memories that you have around money. And it could be, again, yeah, things that people have said, or jobs that you’ve had, bad experiences, purchases that maybe you regret, or whatever it is, and just to look and connect the dots about what could be coming up for you. And then it is a belief that you can shift and change.

So, a couple of ways that are great for shifting beliefs. One is I think it’s super important to surround yourself with positive examples because you have to build that belief that it is possible for you. And this is why courses, communities are so important, mentors are so important because if you’ve never seen it, there’s just no legs to your belief at all.

Catherine:

Hard to imagine, yeah, yeah.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yeah, exactly. It’s really, really hard. And also then, of course, that belief gives you just an extra little something that when appropriate action or opportunities come up, you are just a teeny tiny little bit more strong in your belief in yourself, and then you’d be more inclined to take action. And this is when it just becomes synchronicity. You think it’s synchronicity but it’s just that little bit of belief that you have means that you’re just a little bit more inclined to take action which compounds your results, obviously.

And so, that’s super important and you can do it in so many ways. You can buy a course. You can join a community. You can deliberately seek out mentors. But this is the beauty of the world we live in now with social media. You can curate your social media feeds. You can listen to podcasts about success stories of people like you. There’s so many ways you can strengthen your belief that you can really just crowd out the negativity of maybe people in your life who go, “Oh, you can’t do that,” or, “that’s already being done,” or, “you can’t do that.” So, that’s super important. That’s something that everyone can start doing today.

And then once I’ve connected the dots and I’ve realized maybe what my core belief could be, I love using affirmations as pattern interrupters. And again, it’s not woo-woo, but it’s training your brain to look for opportunities, look for success. So, one thing that comes up for me a lot is guilt.

Catherine:

Yeah, I think that’s a common one.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yeah, it’s pretty big, huh. And I would love you to share this as well. Guilt for me comes up of when I go, “Oh, this is an amazing opportunity, but not everyone has my opportunities.” And then I feel like, “Oh, it’s not fair.” I’d love to hear what comes up for you around guilt.

Catherine:

Yeah. Well, actually, we were talking about this in my client Mastermind group this morning, actually. One of the women was talking, she’s got quite young children still. They’re toddlers and preschoolers, and was talking about feeling guilty because when she spends time on her business, she’s not spending it with them. And so, that was where it was for her. I guess for me, I feel quite lucky, actually. My example growing up with my mother was one… She was quite entrepreneurial, actually. She initially had businesses and then sold them for enough money to buy a house outright and to do what she loved, which is music, and she’s a teacher and a performer. And so, that was my example growing up. And she just never-

Denise Duffield Thomas:

It’s amazing.

Catherine:

Yeah, I was so fortunate. I never really thought about it until more my adult years, but not really having that guilt. And I guess maybe she had five kids. So, by the time you get to number four, which was me, it’s like, “You’re just going to bring yourself up by the bootstraps.” But no, I think, yeah, I don’t have that sort of guilt. I think for me, the guilt is more around asking other people to do something that I know I can do myself. So, that’s been the harder thing for me to get past. Yeah, it’s interesting.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Okay. So, that guilt is a really great example actually, because it’s another manifestation of I have to work really hard to make money.

Catherine:

Yeah, that’s a hard one to let go.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

And if I’m not doing all the things, then I don’t deserve all the money. And so, I see this sometimes with people who’ve got physical locations. They say things like, “Oh, well, you know, it’s my employee who’s really doing all the work in the shops. So, I won’t pay myself a salary so I can pay her salary.” Of course, you’re the one with all the risk. You’re the one with all the vision for the business, et cetera. So, that all just comes down to that I have to work really, really hard to make money. So, that’s a great dot to connect. And then you can go, “Okay. My pattern interrupter, whenever I feel that, could be I serve, I deserve.”

And for me, that’s just a real shortcut affirmation to remind myself, no, I am serving. I am creating jobs. I am creating a great product for my customers. I am showing my kids the role modeling of living your dreams and making your own money. And then I deserve, and that could be something different for everyone. It could be I deserve time off. I deserve to do the things that I love to do in my business. I deserve to get help. I deserve to make money. I deserve to prosper from my imagination and my inventions. And so, that for me is just such a great catch-all when I’m wasting and expanding energy on guilt, instead of working on my business or doing whatever I want to do, whenever.

Catherine:

Yeah. That’s so good. I love it. And it’s such an easy one to remember too. So, I serve, I deserve. And we should all be able to remember that short, catchy phrase when we’re getting a bit bogged down in the rabbit hole.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yeah. It’s a good one to write down, actually, somewhere where you can see it, in your office, or pop it up on your phone because it just… Guilt doesn’t serve anyone. And it’s such a wasted emotion, but it’s really common for women. I feel like we just really feel the weight of the world on our shoulders sometimes. And sometimes we’re feeling the collective guilt because the world isn’t fair. I think if women ran the world, it would be fairer, but we’re the ones who feel bad about that sometimes.

Catherine:

Mm, it’s a bit silly, isn’t it?

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Not the people in charge.

Catherine:

Yeah, totally silly. There’s another woman in my Mastermind group. She’s built an amazing business, and she’s very, very passionate about what she does which is really making changes in the world around living more sustainably and in a more environmentally friendly manner. And she has some amazing products that suit their audiences well. And she’s not motivated by money at all. So, the idea of setting financial targets in the business or anything like that is kind of hard for her to do because it’s just not particularly motivating for her. Obviously, she’s motivated by the impact that she can have, but I haven’t really had a conversation to find out what’s beneath that, and there possibly is some other stuff going on there, but what do you say to that kind of scenario?

Denise Duffield Thomas:

I think that’s totally fair enough. And I resonate with that, to be honest. And I think money for money’s sake isn’t that motivating, I find, to a lot of women that I meet because we don’t necessarily go into business to be the best or to just tick that box of achievement that sometimes is the yardstick in the entrepreneurial world. It’s like, “How much money did you raise? How much money did you make?” And I just find it’s just not that motivating for most of the people that I know. So, I think she’s doing a good thing to look at the impact. If you want to tie that to money, it’s motivating to be able to make an impact on people. So, whether that is to buy a farm and make it really sustainable, or donate hydropanels to a local school during the drought, that stuff costs money. And that can be really motivating to go, “Okay, well, if I sell X many units, then I’ll be able to do this.”

That’s fine. I think that’s totally fine. I am saying this from a place now where I’ve kind of ticked a lot of my big money boxes. I’ve got my house. I’ve got a car that’s covered in McDonald’s fries and sand. And so, until my kids are a bit older, I don’t have the desire for another car. And so, I’m kind of in a place where I go, “Why even do my business then? Why hit goals?” But I still have desires to be able to contribute and desire to help people. And then I still have desires to do things at my farm, for example. And so, I think that’s totally fine. And sometimes it’s a season of life too, especially when you’ve got young kids, sometimes. You’re just like, “My energy’s in that, my energy’s not kicking every goal in my business right now.”

Catherine:

Yeah. There is the risk though, I think.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

I think it all wax and wanes.

Catherine:

Yeah. That’s so true. But there is a risk there, and I don’t know if you see this around, but starting a business and saying to yourself, “I don’t need to make money for myself because my husband earns a lot of money.” And so, I definitely see that being another sort of version of this money doesn’t motivate me, but it’s not really the truth that I think if you know what I mean.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yes. Okay. Well, I’ll tell you where it comes up the most is oh, I just want to help people. I don’t care about the money. And that for me really comes down to this-

Catherine:

Now, you talk about that in your book, I think.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yeah, I do. Because it’s one of those things, again, we feel like it has to be separate. It’s like, “Oh, well, if you really cared about the environment, then you wouldn’t charge people for your products.” And it’s like, “Yeah, but that doesn’t work.” I used to have it in my early days where people would say, “Oh, if you really cared about helping people with their money, you wouldn’t charge.” And it’s like, “Mm, yeah, no.”

Catherine:

It’s hard to get people to value what you have to say then, isn’t it?

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Well, exactly. And it doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive. And so, an affirmation that I used a lot for that in the early days, as well as I serve, I deserve because yes, you deserve to get paid for helping people is the more money I make, the more people I can help, the more people I help, the more money I can make. And that really resonates with me because I just, I go, “Oh yeah.” Here’s the other thing though, if you’re undercharging and over-delivering, you can just help such a finite amount of people. You really can because you’re just burnt out and it doesn’t serve anybody. But if you’re making great money, win-win money in your business and you feel in integrity but you’re still making good money, you can then use your imagination to create resources for people to write a book, for example.

And I know your audience is product-based businesses, but if you had enough to be, do, and have everything, you can innovate and create lower cost items, or online versions, or again, you can write a book. You could help people in so many ways. But when you are burning yourself out and undercharging, I mean, how many people can you really help? And I’m sure there are people listening, I’m sure there are clients that you’ve had, they’ve done that route, and they’ve burnt out, and they’ve had to close businesses down because it just wasn’t sustainable from a energy point of view as well as financially.

Catherine:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, the other topic that seems to come up quite a bit with our audience, and again, I think, I don’t know whether this is a particularly common for women thing. Obviously, I’m seeing that because I work with women, but it’s this having the confidence to go all in, in the business and keep up the safety of the career or the paid J-O-B type job which… Yeah. I mean, obviously, part of that scenario is definitely about your financial means and all of that kind of thing. But I definitely see a lot of times where that’s not really the consideration. It’s really having the confidence in your own abilities and the business to be a going concern, I guess.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Well, I see this definitely with money personalities because there’s the money personality that will never be ready no matter how much money they have in the bank because they want absolute certainty that things are going to work out. They really fear losing all their money and being homeless on the street. And it’s true if they have a dollar in the bank or a million dollars in the bank. It’s definitely just one of those things of stepping forward in faith and being okay. Then there are personality types, this is more than mavericky personality type, they throw caution to the wind and they just do it, and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t. And then you’ve got every flavor in between. And I tend to be the caution to the wind person.

That’s what I did in my twenties. I would get a job. I’d get bored after a couple of months. I’d throw caution to the wind and I would start a business with no idea how to monetize it or anything. I just really wanted my freedom. But I had no kids. I had no kids, and my now-husband, we were together. And so, he would have a job. He could pay our mortgage now if I wanted to throw caution to the wind. And I think it’s one of those things if you’re waiting for the fear to subside, then you’ll be waiting forever because it’s always going to be scary doing something new. And so, everyone has to really assess their level of risk. But so, say, for example, you’re the risk-adverse person. In a way, you have to kind of give yourself and say, “No, I will do it.”

Maybe you go, “Okay, I’ll have this amount in my bank account, and then I’ll start.” You have to stick to that and just go, “Okay, I will do it.” For some people, they have to slowly transition out of a job and go from full-time to part-time, or part-time to contractor and to ease your way into it. The people who are the mavericks, one day will be enough and you’ll just throw it in. But I would say in all of those scenarios, you need a plan. You need accountability. You need a community around you because otherwise you’ll sit at home and the fear will overcome you because you won’t have anyone to help you know what those next steps are. Yeah.

Catherine:

Yeah. Yeah, totally. So, there was one other bit in your Chillpreneur book that I really loved. You talked about it quite a lot, and that was your keyless lifestyle at home and in business. And I loved that so much. So, maybe just talk a little bit about that [crosstalk 00:29:44] of yours. I’m going to obviously link to your book and recommend everybody get it if they haven’t already.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yes, thank you. So, yeah, that’s in my book, Chillpreneur. I have new information about that in a way. So, I realize now because my son, they think that he might have ADHD. And I was like, “Oh, I totally have ADHD.” Yeah, it’s like new realization. And so, when I was a kid and when I was a teenager, I’d always lose my bus pass and lose my keys. And then when I was in my twenties and I had flatmates, I would do the same thing. And then when I lived with Mark, I would do the same thing. And so, I’d always be sat outside my house going, “I’ve lost my keys, I’ve forgotten my keys,” or I would lose my wallet or I’d lose my bus pass or whatever.

Catherine:

Sounds like my son.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yeah, and so, as an adult, when we started having houses that we could do something about, I got electronic keypads because instead of going, “Oh, I must remember my keys,” I was like, “Let’s eliminate that problem, and let’s just put electronic keypads on all of my doors.” And I still have that today. So, that’s the new information, realizing that I have ADHD and that’s why I always forgot, not that I was, I just… I don’t know. I just thought it was a stupid forgetful thing. And so, what I actually teach people now is don’t expend time finding ways for you to change, especially if there are weaknesses. Instead, just find ways to eliminate that problem altogether. And so a really good example of this for entrepreneurs, right, is that have you ever done that dance back and forth and you send like 50 emails about, “Oh, when should we meet? What time should we meet? When are you available?” It’s just so annoying.

Catherine:

Being very polite.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Oh, it’s the worst. And so, there is software that can make that happen. So, now, I just, I refuse to have any conversation about day’s time scheduling. And I just say, “Here’s my calendar link, book it in.” And then I set up. I do it once. It’s automatic reminders that sends people a reminder. It’s just in my calendar. It’s done. And I also get my husband to send me calendar invites too because otherwise, I forget.

Catherine:

I totally need to do that.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

And so, rather than just… Yes. And so, one excuse I see people make all the time, “Oh, I’ll start my business or I’ll do that thing when I get more organized.” I’m like, “I’m not more organized than I was before, but I have found the system workaround.” So, that’s the concept of keyless life. It is what are those little annoyances in your day that take up bandwidth, that take up time and energy that you could be using to make money in your business or doing… I don’t know. Just going to the beach. Doing fun stuff. Can you eliminate it completely? Like, who cares? Let’s just get rid of that product. Let’s get rid of that thing altogether. Can you automate it? Can you buy a piece of software? Can you outsource it? Can you just systemize it? So, you don’t have to change anything. It just becomes not even a thing. So, that’s the whole concept of keyless life. But I just wanted to share that there is new information since I wrote the book. Right? Like, “Oh, it’s because I’ve got ADHD. That’s so cool to know.”

Catherine:

Fascinating. Yeah. I think you’re right. And it’s not just something that’s difficult for people to do, but anything that’s sort of really repetitive or isn’t really a great use of your time, I guess in business, if it’s not helping you to grow your business or you really hate doing this stuff, find ways not to do it.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Just outsource it. And this work, just to circle back to the home conversation, it’s like, get a meal delivery service if it’s going to help you or get someone to make meals for you locally and freeze them. One of my entrepreneurial friends, she discovered that her kid’s school, you could pre-order lunches from the canteen for the whole term.

Catherine:

No way. Oh, that’s so cool.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yes, I know. I wish we could do it for my kid because Mondays and Fridays, it’s one of those days that’s a little bit more hectic. And I was like, “Oh, wish we could just do it in advance,” because I love anything like that that doesn’t require extra work.

Catherine:

No, set and forget.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yeah, exactly. Set and forget. I have to do that with my bills. I have to do it with… If you’re the sort of person who always pays something late, well then put it on direct debit. It just takes that little time sometimes to set things up, but then you don’t expend the energy on it. I’m all for anything that can make you… Yeah. Ease and grace, ease and grace. But we’ll resist it because then it goes against the concept of hard work, and suffering, and earning, and deserving this.

Catherine:

So, maybe we need to be working on that side of things first so that we can feel a little bit okay with working less and profiting more. And then take those steps of life-

Denise Duffield Thomas:

You know what? Don’t tell anyone, but all of my books and all of my courses, they all come down to self-love and acceptance. I just write it in a million different ways. Because with that, then you can just go on with your bad self and just do the thing that’s you.

Catherine:

Yeah. That’s so true, yeah.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

But don’t tell anyone.

Catherine:

Oh, well, we just told lots of people. Nevermind.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Exactly.

Catherine:

I mean, obviously, Chillpreneur is the book that I’ve been referring to. I know you’ve written several books. That’s the most recent one, I think. Is that right?

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yes. Yeah, Chillpreneur is my most recent and I’m super proud of it. It’s my philosophy on business and making money. Yeah, I actually really love it. But I also have a book called Get Rich, Lucky Bitch which is mostly focused on the money mindset side. And then my first published book was Lucky Bitch, which is more about manifesting and, yeah. That’s always a really fun book. It’s got some fun stories in there about some crazy stuff that I’ve manifested and how to really break that down. So, if you’re someone who loves that world of manifesting a law of attraction but you just not quite sure about what to do, then that’s a really great book to get started with.

And yeah, so people can find me super easy. My website is denisedt.com and that’s where you can find information about my free resources and my Money Bootcamp. And then my social handles are the same everywhere. So, @denisedt. So, that’s on Facebook and Twitter, and I tend to hang out mostly on Instagram, and I love getting DMs. I love when people tell me what… Not only their aha but like what they’re going to do about that aha. Because being of service, being a Virgo, being practical is super exciting to me. So, if someone’s like, “Oh, I just turned off my unsubscribed notifications to make my life easier,” I’m just like, “Oh yes, do it.”

Catherine:

Yes, yeah. That’s so good. Well, just to give you my aha. My aha moment, definitely, and it was a little while ago, but flipping that mindset around focusing on being okay about money, working less because I’m focusing on creating the jobs for my team and the impact that can have on my clients. So, that was my big aha moment. And I definitely only work school hours now, which is fun as a mum of three.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Yeah, I get it.

Catherine:

So, there you go.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Ah, that’s wonderful.

Catherine:

But I definitely, highly recommend your books. And so many of my team are also in your Money Bootcamp. I haven’t personally done it, but I’ve read lots of your other content as well. So, we love you, Denise. And I’ll link to all of those places that our audience can go and find you.

Denise Duffield Thomas:

Oh, well, I appreciate being able to chat to you and your audience. So, thank you so much, everybody. And I’ll see you all online.

Catherine:

Awesome. Thank you.