Catherine Langman:

Well, hello, there. It’s Catherine Langman here and back with another episode of the Productpreneur Success podcast. And today I’m really excited to welcome my fabulous photographer, Prue, onto the show. Welcome to the show, Prue.

Prue Aja:

Hi Katherine. Thank you so much for having me in today.

Catherine Langman:

Awesome, awesome, awesome. So Prue is a photographer based out of Melbourne and she’s worked with me and also a few of my clients recently. And I was really keen to get her on the show today because images are one really important component of your marketing, when it comes to your eCommerce store and your brand, and so we thought we would sort of jump on and have a little bit of a conversation about images and why you need good images, how you can get really good images, and all the things around that. So, where should we start, Prue? I think we were talking before just about what is a branding shoot or brand images. Do you want to start there and we can take it from there?

Prue Aja:

Yes, sure. I’ve worked with a lot of clients who have created beautiful products, anything from skincare to food, to clothing, and then they’re like, “Okay, but I need to get this out into the world. Where do I even begin?” So I find the first part of the story is finding out why they actually started their brand and what their inspiration is because once I understand their values and where that inspiration comes from, I want that to shine through in the photo and it tells the story. So once I find out what their story is, I put together a style guide for their shoot. And this is a part of their brand foundation to create consistent content across all the different mediums where their photos and their product is going to be showing.

Prue Aja:

In developing this, we put together a mood board and a lot of brands may already have a mood board from they’re actually developing their product, some people don’t. And I find a really good place to start doing this is on Pinterest. So finding inspiration, and this can be anything from photos that showcase the lifestyle of the person that will be using the product. It could be other products that are from other countries around the world who have amazing marketing campaigns or great photos, we can add that to the Pinterest board. Different colors, even scenery and landscape, it could be a fashion shot. And that just helps bring together a visual story so I can understand the aesthetic that someone likes and can see for that brand.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah.

Prue Aja:

That’s where it all starts really. Again, pulling all that together. From there, then we go, “Okay, so what colors do we want to consistently show through your brand?” Because having colors ties everything together. When they’re seen and know colors, it makes people think of your brand and it also can tie together with your brand, your logo, your website, and making your Instagram feed look really beautiful.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, true. Absolutely. And just, I guess, that whole psychology, the buyer psychology, if you can influence that because you’ve got the better recognition, the brand recognition with your audience, then that’s obviously going to help when it comes to growing your business.

Prue Aja:

Definitely. And then from there, we want to think about the style of photos we want to create. Are we going to do some flat lays? Are we going to do them on a location to showcase? Are we adding in those different elements in there? Are we going to have models with it, what props they’re going to use? So all those things is what is going to help bring the story together in your photos. And you’ll get ideas for these things from your inspiration and also from where your products are going to be used.

Prue Aja:

So I could use an example for this. One of the clients that I’ve worked for Two-Winged Fruit, who I know you also work with, Catherine.

Catherine Langman:

Yes.

Prue Aja:

So they make sustainable and ethical hair and body care, with a big emphasis on not using palm oil and really educating their clients about the damaging effects of palm oil on [inaudible 00:04:47] and orangutans and just the environment as well.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah.

Prue Aja:

So when I’m taking photos for them, I’ve incorporated native flora, Australian flora, as well as ingredients that are seen in their products, and organic background, so using a beautiful board texture for the background for the product. So it really kind of taps you into the feeling and emotion of the product as well. And they’re valued. As they say, a picture can tell a thousand words.

Catherine Langman:

I was going to say that exactly and because it’s true, right? Because people just, obviously people read, but a lot of people read really quickly and they skim over information. And so if you can communicate those, that the main facts or the main bits of the story in an image, you got to really get the point across a lot faster and probably more in a more engaging, meaningful way as well.

Prue Aja:

Yeah, definitely. You want the photo to spark an emotion in someone, so then that way they feel a connection to the product, but also your brand and connect with your values and what the lifestyle of the brand is about.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, definitely. One thing, which hopefully this doesn’t go off on a tangent because I don’t think we spoke about this before, but it has just jumped into my head that startups will say to me, “Oh, can I just send some stuff to some Instagrammers and get some photos that way?” And I guess what I like to say to people is that it’s great to work with people like that to get social media content, but when it comes to actually establishing your brand and telling your brand story, that you want to have a little bit more influence over what that looks like and the look and feel of the images and establishing a style. But what’s your sort of take on all of that?

Prue Aja:

Well, I feel like that would just be an added bonus or part of your marketing strategy in doing that. You definitely don’t want to create all your content from an influencer, creating the content and telling your brand story because the content they’re creating is about their personal brand and their story and notice one little element within that. And you’re probably going to be paying an influencer thousands of dollars to do this, and you don’t know what you’re going to get out of it.

Prue Aja:

Whereas if you actually create a really beautiful brand around your product that is going to attract influencers who pretty much just want to buy your product anyway, and ideally you’re making the money, and then photograph it, that’s the way you’d want to go around it. So starting with creating your brand looking amazing, and then doing collaborations with influencers, so then you’re both helping each other as well.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, absolutely. So maybe let’s have a chat about some of your other clients as well, just to kind of give people a few ideas about the kinds of styled shoots that they could think. What kind of scenarios or stories are they trying to tell or can you do with your imagery?

Prue Aja:

Yeah, sure. So one of my other clients is the Packaging People and they create packaging for product brands.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, they do cool stuff.

Prue Aja:

Yeah, it’s amazing and the variety that they have, we actually did a shoot of every single product that they offer over COVID.

Catherine Langman:

Oh wow.

Prue Aja:

So it was a nice job to do in the studio and not have anyone around seen as we couldn’t be around other people.

Catherine Langman:

True.

Prue Aja:

And it was a very, I think it was four or five days of shooting products.

Catherine Langman:

Oh wow. Yeah.

Prue Aja:

And so I’ve done a couple of different styles of shoots for them. So monthly I’ll do a styling shoot for them where we’ll showcase some of their different packaging. And it might be packaging that’s used for coffee beans, and so we’ll have a little coffee card with some beans coming out. We might make a gif with the beans actually moving, so when it comes up in the Instagram feed, it’s a cute little video with stuff moving within it.

Catherine Langman:

I love that. You can use that sort of thing in an email too.

Prue Aja:

Oh yeah, definitely. I’ve seen a lot more of that in emails and it just makes it a little bit more interactive and holds your attention for a bit longer seen as our attentions are short these days. And as a part of the one, so I shot all their products that they have available in every single color and every single style. And then for each section of products, we did a styled shot. So for all their box bottom bags, we did a shot showing that that could be used for flowers and baking and protein powder, actually the protein powder was in a different one. So we got some cooking bowls and wooden spoons and a loaf of bread and made this beautiful kind of kitchen set up with flowers coming out of the bags, and so it inspired people to go, “Okay, well, I could use that packaging for this product.”

Prue Aja:

Another one was the protein powder and we had some boxing gloves and a skipping rope and pulled in elements that relate to actually having protein powder.

Catherine Langman:

Yep.

Prue Aja:

And so just thinking how the product’s going to be used and what are the elements would be around in that, I guess, you said landscape and tying it all together, so you can inspire people into how that product can be used.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah. Yeah, that’s so good. What about when it comes to the styled shoots for products? Something else that people ask me too is, do I have to get models in? Do I need to have people in there? What’s the drill when it comes to booking human talent for the photo shoots?

Prue Aja:

Yeah, when you’re adding talent in, it does make it different. So you’re asking more in regards to an actual fashion piece? Or clothing or products?

Catherine Langman:

Look, yeah, that’s interesting because I guess in our business, we work with people who have fashion as products, but also skincare and makeup and other sorts of accessories. And I think there’s the temptation to… Well, there’s probably the temptation to go either way, either having some images shot with people in them, but then others where I assume it’s more economical to just shoot the product. But what would be the drill when it comes to going either way?

Prue Aja:

So when your bringing models into it, I’m thinking of a couple of clients that I’ve worked with. So one of them was the charcoal toothpaste, there’s charcoal powder that you use this toothpaste, and they really wanted to target a younger audience who wanted to use something that’s more natural and organic instead of there’s toxic teeth whitening stuff that’s out there. And so we got a female and a male model. They were in their early twenties.

Prue Aja:

And I find working with Wink model agency really good. They always, they always help people out with that budgets and help find the right talent to suit the brand and the audience that the brand is trying to market to. So they will send, I’ll send a brief to them and go, “This is what we want to create. Do you have any suggestions?” And then they’ll send over some photos of talent. And it’s a good idea to have a look through that photos and see if the facials and emotions that they’re showing in photos is what’s going to work for your brand. So someone might have a really happy, bubbly brand. You want to make sure you can choose a model that is quite smiley in their photos, because a lot of models, I’m glad things are changing the way it used to be, where models are more the closed mouth and the moody look, because no one really connects with that these days.

Catherine Langman:

No, it’s a bit [inaudible 00:12:56], isn’t it?

Prue Aja:

Yeah, definitely. So finding models that really connect with your brand and you like their vibe and energy. And your photographer should help you pick out the right people for this. So we go to male and female and we did some shots of her in a row, brushing her teeth or just holding the product as well. Some individual shots of the male to attract the male audience as well. And then we did some couple shots of them together, like brushing their teeth. I did a gif of them brushing their teeth, which is quite cute. And then them putting the charcoal on each other’s bodies and playing around. And yeah, it was really fun. And we shot this in a really beautiful bathroom as well.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah. Cool. So I guess you have to find the right location for that too, huh?

Prue Aja:

Yeah. So when you bring your talent, it can be a bit tricky if it’s just in the studio building up all the different elements. It’s great if you can have access to locations, which there’s a few websites that can help with that as well, such as Airbnb. But you do want to let the host know that you’re going to do a shoot there. And 9% of the time, they’re fine with it. Another website is A Perfect Space.

Catherine Langman:

Okay.

Prue Aja:

They are a global location service place. They’re based in Melbourne though and I’ve met the founder who is very inspiring. And you can literally type in, “cactus, garden, pool, blue kitchen,” and all your options will come up.

Catherine Langman:

That’s amazing.

Prue Aja:

You can find anything that’s really specific to your brand and what you want, and even your budget as well.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, I love that. I’ll have to get those links from you and make sure we get them on the podcast show notes page too.

Prue Aja:

Oh, definitely.

Catherine Langman:

That’s awesome. I know that in the past I did a location shoots by booking Airbnb place and that definitely worked really well. Yeah.

Prue Aja:

I think it helps, you can get most of the variety as well when you’re in a house. You’ve got the lounge room, you’ve got the kitchen, you’ve got the bathroom and bedrooms, so you can really create lots of content that doesn’t look like it’s all been shot on the one day.

Catherine Langman:

True. Yeah, absolutely.

Prue Aja:

Yeah.

Catherine Langman:

Cool. And I guess from my perspective, coming at it from the marketing side of things and what you would do with the images, I definitely want to chime in and say that if you can aim to have some styled photos that do have humans in them, you definitely find that those images are going to engage a lot more with your audience. And I think it’s just that it’s just human psychology. I think we’re drawn to faces, and babies and women seem to do really, really well in images for ads and other marketing elements as well.

Prue Aja:

Yeah, definitely. I’ve had clients on the day just pop their hand in just holding the product, that just adds a little bit of action to it. So if you are going to do a shoot, make sure you’ve got your nails done because there’s so many times like, “I haven’t got my nails done,” and then we just do it. And it looked all right in the end, but just a little tip to consider it before the day as well.

Catherine Langman:

Oh, I love that one. I have a client actually at the moment who she makes this pre-poo toilet spray, the brand is Non, N-O-N, and they don’t have people on the toilet or anything like that in their images. But she’ll have a photo of a bum clenching like you’re busting, or a photo of a hand spraying into the toilet. So that’s the human element that they get into their images, which is pretty fun.

Prue Aja:

I love that. Actually, something I was going to mention about hiring talent, I do get some clients sometimes and then like, “Oh, my next door neighbor, she’s gorgeous,” people come and model, and that’s all well and good. But the problem that comes with having people there to represent your product who aren’t used to being in front of the camera, it’s going to take a lot longer. Whereas if you have in a model, a model who’s experienced, they’re used to moving their body and holding products and really showing it off, you are going to get 10 times more content from the day of the shoot than you would with someone that’s inexperienced. And that takes a lot more energy for the photographer to actually direct and get the right thing happening. So you be saving a couple hundred bucks, but at the end of the day, you’re going to get a lot more out of it.

Prue Aja:

Something I’ve always questioned, when someone’s gone through, I’ve studied fashion design so I know everything from textiles to patent making to clothing. And when you go through all those stages and designing something, making a [inaudible 00:00:17:56], and then you finally put something into production and you’re ready to put it out in the world and you just let your brand down by not hiring the right talent to wear it, it’s one of the biggest mistakes you can make.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, absolutely.

Prue Aja:

I would probably even suggest hiring a cheaper photographer and putting more money into talent. I might be shooting myself in the foot here, but your talent is who’s taking your brands and your products, so it’s crucial.

Catherine Langman:

It is important. And obviously for me now, I’m the face of my business now because I don’t have physical products anymore. And I can tell you because you photographed me, that was hard because I’m not a model and I don’t know how to pose in front of a camera. So that was, yeah, I can concur.

Prue Aja:

Yeah. So that’s my main thing, as well as doing the personal branding portraits. So I’ve worked fashion for many years and I realized all these women out there who are doing awesome things in the world didn’t have great photos or really boring corporate photos, so I brought my fashion background to create amazing portraits of women for their businesses. But when it comes to products, if the sound is not going to do it, get some great talent to showcase it.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah. Put your best foot forward. And you’re probably going to end up connecting with the right customer base much more quickly and easily and getting moving with your sales more quickly and easily as well.

Prue Aja:

Definitely, yeah.

Catherine Langman:

Another thing that I’m sure that, well, I’m sure that you cover all of this when you’re doing a brief with a new client, but I’ve had situations in the past where a photographer hasn’t necessarily gone over the format of images and what the use would be. So where would the images be used? And I think now these days, it can be so easy to sort of fall into the trap that, “I just need some images for my website and for social media, and that’s it,” but that’s not necessarily the case when you’re selling products, is it?

Prue Aja:

No, definitely not.

Catherine Langman:

So it’s something you need to consider.

Prue Aja:

Yeah, so that’s the thing, you can get this amazing portrait photo back of your product. And you’re like, “Well, I actually need a banner shot for my homepage of my website.” So part of the briefing stage and the developing of the style guide, I go through your website and work out, right, so under each category page, we want to have a banner image. We need to make sure that we style it and we shoot it landscape. And then it can also be cropped to fit perfectly in there and really showcase the product.

Prue Aja:

And then so many formats. So you’ve got your landscape shots and then your product shots are usually in a square for your product page. You’ve got your Instagram shots, which are square. And then you have to take in to consideration portrait images to use on your Instastories, and hugely Pinterest as well. Pinterest is absolutely amazing for product brands and they need portrait images as well, so it needs to be delivered in all formats for you.

Prue Aja:

But those hero shots for your website that are going to be beautifully starred and really capture someone’s attention when they hit your website, you want to make sure they are magnificent [crosstalk 00:21:27] perfectly, because a lot of times people have that and then you scroll down and then image contracts and kind of changes size, and then you totally lose the purpose of it. Or considering you might want to add text to one side of the photo as well, talking about what it is and not covering someone’s face or not covering one of the details of the product.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, absolutely. The other thing that I know I used to use photos for was large format printing for a trade show and expo stands as well, which is very different from putting images on a website. So yeah, making sure that you don’t just get really low resolution, web-only images. That’s the other thing.

Prue Aja:

Yes. So as a part of the package that I create for my clients is they get a certain number of high-end, retouched images. So these are the really detail shots that you would use for your hero shot, that you use for any print and marketing material, and they’re delivered in a website and also a print-size. And if you’re going to get it printed for a banner or something, if you’re using a printer that’s not so experienced, they might not understand, but the photos actually needs to be put into a certain color profile as well. You can have, I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced this, but you print something and the color is completely different or it looks really flat, so you want to communicate that with your photographer and your printer to make sure that they’re on the same page.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah. Such good points there because I guess it’s pretty easy to just assume that digital printing makes everything super easy and everyone works off the same information, but it’s not always the way.

Prue Aja:

Yeah, And different printers and that kind of thing. And I can only imagine how many printers get sent web-sized images now too. And the other thing is you don’t want to mistakenly upload a print-size photo to your website because that’s going to make the loading time really slow. And yeah, so it’s really important that you have the different file sizes and dimensions.

Catherine Langman:

So this is where I think it is worth working with someone who sort of knows what they’re doing because if as a business owner or a brand, designer, inventor, manufacturer, you’ve got all of these things that you’re already doing with design and production and trying to pull together your marketing, but having a good idea about all of the possible image formats and sizes and usages, a good photographer can really help you with that too.

Prue Aja:

Yeah. It could be a nasty headache at the other end if you get the photos back and you’re like, “I didn’t even know how to use.” And what you confidently want to have a folder on your Google drive your Dropbox so when any marketing opportunities come up or you’re trying to plan out your Instagram schedule, you can just go to it and you’ve got a library of shots that you can confidently use knowing every single shot looks amazing and is consistent with your branding.

Catherine Langman:

Yep. Fabulous idea. I like that very much.

Prue Aja:

Yeah.

Catherine Langman:

Now, before we sort of wrap everything up, I want to ask a question about are there any kind of disaster stories or pitfalls or kind of common mistakes that people make that you could share a story around just to kind of help people learn a bit faster and get past any of those?

Prue Aja:

You might have to cut, I have to think about that. I think definitely a big part of it is the models and the talent, and 80% of your photo shoot is the work’s done before the day of the shoot. So when it comes to the day of the shoot, you’ve got your shot list, you know what props are in each image, you know what the outcome is, you know where that photo is going to be used, so when they’re delivered, you can upload it to your website. You can print it for your banner. Everything’s really planned out before you even take the first photo.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah. I think that is the perfect answer, and not least because it does remind me of a client of ours who made that mistake, where she hired a photographer, but they did not have a shot list. They didn’t have any, there was no inspiration for the composition of the images or what should be captured on the day or anything like that. So they didn’t have any of that and the images were terrible and they couldn’t be used. So, yeah.

Prue Aja:

Yeah. And that’s the thing, it’s really wise to invest in a photographer that knows what they’re doing. They might cost a little bit more, but because they’ve got all the experience, they’ve made all the mistakes and they’re going to nail it for you. And that’s why I couldn’t actually think of where something’s turned into a disaster or gone wrong, to be honest, because I’ve always been such a detail-oriented planner.

Catherine Langman:

You are very organized.

Prue Aja:

Thank you. And I even, the night before the shoot, I go into a bit of a dream state and visualize what the outcome is. So I’ve got it very crystal clear in my head what I want to achieve. So when you’re working with me, you’re not just paying for me to actually take the photos, you’re paying for all my mental space to create them in my head as well, and really get the best for you. Yeah.

Catherine Langman:

Definitely. So yeah, don’t be like my other poor client who, obviously she’s not going to be doing that again, but yeah. Going down the road where she hired someone. And I guess the irony of that situation was it was somebody who had done some good images before, she she sort of just thought, “Oh, well, she’ll do another good job,” but it obviously a fluke the first time.

Prue Aja:

Yeah. And maybe it was- [crosstalk 00:27:36] Yeah, so someone could be a great photographer, but if the planning is not in place and they’re not sure what they’re trying to achieve, or this no vision for the shoot, it can easily go wrong. Definitely.

Catherine Langman:

Totally. Just thinking on that note, I know that I have a bit of a simple briefing form. It’s not what you would fill out, Prue, because I know that you’ve got a lot of detail that you go through, which I really enjoyed when I worked with you recently, but at least for a product photography end of things, just to get people thinking about what kind of shots they might need and where they might be using them and things like that. So I’m just going to pop a link to that for any of you listeners who need to start planning out a shoot and figuring out what images you might need and what you want to use them for and all of that sort of stuff. So I’ll pop a link on the show notes for that. I’m also going to pop a link for your website, Prue.

Prue Aja:

Thank you.

Catherine Langman:

So do you want to just quickly mention where people can go to if they want to find out a bit more about working with you?

Prue Aja:

Sure. So you can find me through my website, which is prueasha.com, P-R-U-E A-J-A. And you can also find me on Instagram, Prue Aja Photography. And you can connect to me there, have a chat and see some behind the scenes of what I get up to on photo shoots, and even the planning stages as well.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah. Fantastic. And super last quick question. I know that you’re based in Melbourne, but do you need people to be in Melbourne and come to you if it’s a product photo shoot?

Prue Aja:

No. So I’ve got a studio in Northcote and you can send your products from anywhere in Australia or around the world. And because I’ve done all the planning stuff and know exactly what the vision for the shoot is before the day of the shoot, I’ve got an idea of what the outcome’s going to be, and I can even share the images with you as I’m shooting throughout the day, as I shoot it all live to my computer to make sure it’s absolutely perfect.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, that’s great. So I know that a few of my clients who were interstate from you have worked with you very successfully, so I can certainly give you a glowing recommendation in that regard as well, so that’s fabulous.

Prue Aja:

Thank you. I just thought of one more quick thing I could add in there. Another thing to think about when you’re doing your shoot as well is thinking about the year ahead and what content you want to put out, so what blogs you might be writing, any special occasions that might come up and you might want to create styled shots for each of those, so you’ve got an image to go out at certain times of year as well.

Catherine Langman:

That is, yes, a really good point to make. So thinking about promotions and product launches there as well. So certainly for me, when I’m trying to work with a client on a product launch, obviously any new products need to go to the photographer and have some images shot for the website and for marketing. But yeah, definitely thinking about the year ahead and what promotions and other content and marketing you might be producing. Great tip.

Prue Aja:

Thank you. Thanks.

Catherine Langman:

Fantastic. Well, it’s really great to have you on the show, Prue. And thank you for your insights and tips and stories all about images and photography for brands.

Prue Aja:

Ah, thank you so much for having me. I love chatting about all of this and I’m happy to chat with anyone with product-based businesses out there about how you can create a beautiful shoot for your business.

Catherine Langman:

Fabulous. Wonderful.

Prue Aja:

Thank you.

Catherine Langman:

We’ll catch you later.

Prue Aja:

Bye.