Catherine Langman:

Well, hello there and welcome back to the Productpreneur Success Podcast. It’s Catherine Langman here as your host, and today I’m really excited to welcome… I have Claire Behrmann from Jellystone Designs with me today. Welcome to the show, Claire.

Claire Behrmann:

Thank you Catherine, thanks for having me.

Catherine Langman:

We’re really excited to have you on the show. And I’d love to… I mean I’ve been aware of Jellystone designs, I think, since it was sort of first around, because the products were very complimentary to what I sold in my business, which was a modern cloth nappy brand, and so doing baby expos and really hitting up the whole mom and baby market. But for those who don’t know Jellystone Designs, let us all know what you’re all about.

Claire Behrmann:

Yeah, sure. So with Jellystone Designs, we design and manufacture teethers chew pendants and toys, all based around sensory play, and most of our products use silicone as well. So Catherine, you’re always talking about the old Jellystone days.

Catherine Langman:

I am.

Claire Behrmann:

I think probably, it was about nine, 10 years ago when it debuted, I guess.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, things have changed in a while.

Claire Behrmann:

[crosstalk 00:01:21] silicone jewelry necklaces for mom to wear, and we purchased the business about five years ago. So Natalie and [inaudible 00:01:36] started it, and then, I don’t have any incredibly amazing story about it, but I saw an opportunity to buy Jellystone. I love the brand, I love the product offerings, and yes, just had the chance to jump on and take it in a completely different direction, essentially, from there. I had a 16 month old and was seven months pregnant and I thought, why not buy a business and go on that journey?

Catherine Langman:

You just needed something else to do.

Claire Behrmann:

Apparently, yeah.

Catherine Langman:

So only five years, I mean you’ve done an enormous amount in five years.

Claire Behrmann:

Wow, thank you. Yeah I guess the necklaces, while it was the bread and butter of the business when we started our industry, that market quickly became quite flooded with a lot of competition, and we had to look at what else we could be doing, and it’s so much so for product development, that we soon found out. So we did a diversified and went into a range of chew pendants from there and teethers and chews, and the chew pendants have been really popular with a lot of kids on the autism spectrum, they like to chew to help with sensory processing. So a whole new world that we were unaware of and then an opportunity to design more products to help these kids. So yes, it’s been a big five years and a big journey to get here.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, absolutely. So, I guess you really have two quite distinct target markets then.

Claire Behrmann:

Yes, yes. So I guess our moms are sort of generally purchasing the products, they’re all sort of very similar, but I guess that the reason they’re buying the products vary across those two different markets. Yeah.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah. That’s awesome. And so, after you bought the business five years ago, what was your journey from there? I mean, regardless of whether you start your own business or you’re buying into a business, you sort of have to figure out, “Well, what am I going to do to grow the business?” What marketing are you going to do and what’s the steps that you need to take. So what sort of strategies did you try out first and from then?

Claire Behrmann:

Yes, sure. So when we initially started off, we had a distributor in Australia, and we went down much more of a business to business route. So we thought that was the best way to get as much of our products out there, by going direct to retailing. Online five years ago is very different landscape to how it is today, and we thought that would be the best way to market our products. So we did a lot of trade shows initially, and we revamped the product offering initially to have more gifting lines, I guess, so it could also be a nice gift purchase that a retailer could stock. And we redesigned our packaging as well, so it looks fabulous on the shelf and it really brought out and enhanced the product inside. Yeah, we did do… Oh, and we also focused on overseas as well. There were international markets we could be pushing out products into. There some more links already established, and then we were trying to build on there, further.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, yeah. So I mean I can imagine that your sort of products would do really well, not just in the baby, big box retailers and boutique stores, but also pharmacies I imagine, as well. That sort of thing.

Claire Behrmann:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we’re really fortunate that we do have that trickle across both toy stores through to pharmacies, through to children’s stores and yeah, everywhere it needs agencies, everything in between.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That’s so cool. And then, I guess, in the last year, you decided to start focusing a little bit more on the online space as well?

Claire Behrmann:

Yes.

Catherine Langman:

What was the impetus for that?

Claire Behrmann:

So, I think one part, primarily is, really not having that connection with the end user of our product. So, while it was fabulous just to supply all these retailers and the feedback on products is very much about merchandising and how they can couple it with another range that they had to make the sale in their store, whereas we were really wanting to connect with the person that is buying teethers or our sensory toys and understand what they were loving about it, ways in which we could improve and to help with product development from there. Yeah.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, I can imagine that you’d have a pretty good engaged audience on social media with the sort of audience that you sell to. Do you get some feedback like that from there as well?

Claire Behrmann:

Yes. Yes. So if people… I will always value any sort of feedback we can get. I think doing products with silicone, it’s quite an intricate design process to get the finished product. So, it’s not like we can just flip something overnight, which can get a bit frustrating when people want particular products, like, “Oh, why can’t you just be doing this?” But of course we…

Catherine Langman:

Yeah. And I guess the testing stage, too, would be important.

Claire Behrmann:

Yeah, exactly right. With all of that as well. But I mean, I guess if people can come to us with what the problem is that they need fixed, then we can explore different options from there. And I mean, the autism community, they just do so many fabulous things, and they’re so welcoming and ready to share ideas with you. So, it’s just a matter of being there to listen and to hear what’s going on, and yeah, try and create some products that can help in that area.

Catherine Langman:

That’s it. That’s exciting.

Claire Behrmann:

Yeah, I know. Never a dull moment.

Catherine Langman:

No. And so does that mean that, I guess over the last year or so since you’ve been shifting that focus a little bit, that things are looking a bit different now in the business?

Claire Behrmann:

Yes and no. I think, if there’s ever those days where you get really frustrated or be [inaudible 00:08:56] with what’s going on, knowing exactly who is using your products and why they love them, it’s such a good motivator to keep going. Because it keeps [inaudible 00:09:11] almost like a bit of a black hole to an extent when you’re supplying all these retailers, and that’s fabulous [inaudible 00:09:16]. But the whole why, can get a little bit lost along the way.

Catherine Langman:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). That’s a really good point. And for anyone who’s listening, that’s a little bit earlier on in your business journey, I think that’s an amazing takeaway and I would recommend writing that one down. It’s easy to… I think especially for the mum entrepreneur market, I think it’s easy to sort of get kind of… You’re in your little… You can kind of get stuck in that little bubble, I don’t mean that to sound negative in any way, because you know, I started out in that journey as well, but to lift your eyes up a little bit higher and look further on the horizon and the impact that you can potentially have, it can be really inspiring and motivating.

Claire Behrmann:

Yeah, absolutely.

Catherine Langman:

So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So, as you know, as we record this, of course we’re in the middle of this lovely Coronavirus pandemic situation, so, I’m sure that’s been having an impact, not just on… I mean, everyone’s finding that it’s impacting our lives and our businesses of course. So, what kind of impact or changes are you seeing happening in your area?

Claire Behrmann:

Well, our beautiful retailers essentially cannot open or just don’t have any foot traffic coming through, which is completely understandable. So, it’s like a whole segment of our business has just stopped flipping over. And we did a trade show, quite fortunate to sort of make that one in the beginning of March. It was the first to the 4th of March, in Melbourne we did a show, but already then, the foot traffic was minimal and the orders we took were just well below what we had anticipated or would expect to take, and then, fulfilling those orders since we got back, [inaudible 00:11:23] parents haven’t been able to go ahead with their order. So, that whole side is not so much existing for us, which is unfortunate.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, it’s so hard isn’t it? Because obviously it’s affecting your business, but you’ve built up relationships with these retailers over many years, so your heart goes out to them.

Claire Behrmann:

Exactly. Yeah, so I think I’m trying share with them what the impact is with us and how we’re going, because this affected us at the start of the year with manufacturing in China and filtering that information back to our retailers. So trying to be very transparent with what’s happening, because of course our [inaudible 00:12:09] and how it’s impacting on us. And then, hearing back from retailers, they’ve all been really like positive about it, but the fact is that it’s just not happening for them at the moment, and they don’t know when we’ll get back to some sort of normality as well. So, yes, [crosstalk 00:12:32].

Catherine Langman:

And I guess the difficulty at the same time, is, a lot of customers are still needing these products. If they’re having babies or they’ve got children with autism or any of your customer base, they don’t just stop needing these things, do they?

Claire Behrmann:

Exactly right. So for us, online sales that have been coming direct to us has been going really well. And our retailers who have been established online, they are doing really well. And then retailers have flipped as well to have an online offering or to see how they can share their products with their community and still keep taking over. So, yes, we redesigned our website last year, I think you know all of that part?

Catherine Langman:

It looks beautiful.

Claire Behrmann:

[inaudible 00:13:26]. The one we had before was just clunky and horrible and we kept trying to fix it, and it was just not going anywhere. It didn’t make you want to stop there and look at any products, that’s for sure. But yes, I think, I mean now my understanding with websites, it’s all about converting to sales and how that’s done. A lot more complex and multifaceted than I would ever have understood until we worked together on that. I think we did have lovely images but our text was, so-so. There was no SEO, navigating around was just not at all user-friendly.

Catherine Langman:

Some of the awesome information that you have, especially for your customers with autism, I seem to remember, was a little bit buried as well.

Claire Behrmann:

Oh, completely buried, for sure. I think that also was a contributing factor to what I was saying, working so much day to day and losing track of who we are and what we did. So, I remember Sarah, who works for you with this, extracting so much information from me, which really helped to sell out and just present the picture of who we are and what we do better than I could’ve imagined. So, yes. Now that is [inaudible 00:14:57] sure where it should be placed on a website, after 25 tabs where you’ve given up everything what’s this all about anyway. And it probably crashed in the interim as well. It was terrible.

Catherine Langman:

So I take it you’re enjoying Shopify then?

Claire Behrmann:

Oh my God, I love it. It’s incredible. It’s so good.

Catherine Langman:

That’s good.

Claire Behrmann:

Yes. And yeah, it doesn’t hurt that we have been getting good traction and such good sales that yeah, the analytics data on Shopify is joyful to read as well.

Catherine Langman:

That’s fantastic.

Claire Behrmann:

That’s really good, yeah.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah. Cool. And I know that it was fortuitous that you decided to redo that website so that it was a little bit easier for people to shop on and not that you would ever have been able to predict that we’d be in this situation now, of course.

Claire Behrmann:

Yeah, it’s actually quiet. Last year, my goal was doing more retail sales, and I quickly understood that there wasn’t really a magic button you could press, it started with the website. So I think it was winter last year we worked together, we didn’t really do a website and then it just started this year, I really wanted to focus on that, getting more conversions and getting the most out of this new website as well. We’ve been discussing Facebook ads and Google and what we can do.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, driving people traffic.

Claire Behrmann:

Yeah, and I mean that generates.. Then you’re reaching more people and they’re sharing with their friends and reviewing products and then joining you on social media. So it’s really lovely to keep building on our community of shoppers, as well.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, absolutely. And for any listeners out there who are like Claire, who are wholesalers as well as wanting to sell on your online store, what I have experienced in a regular market, obviously right now is not a regular market, but in a regular market, I always find that that brands who are proactively marketing your brand online, I always see that the sales for the retail stockists go up as well. So, there’s definitely ways that you can go about your marketing that doesn’t step on anyone’s toes and you’re not aggressive in competing against your stockists or anything like that. You’re actually helping them. Of course, some people can be aggressive and awful, but we don’t advocate that.

Claire Behrmann:

Yeah, of course. No, it can be awful. So yeah, it’s interesting you raise that point, because when we started out, the advice we had was, “Oh, you should never be selling online. You probably shouldn’t even have a website, because that would just upset your retailers and business dealing within.” Which, I mean, I guess things have changed a lot since then.

Catherine Langman:

They have.

Claire Behrmann:

But, yeah, I feel like we’ve got our audience and our community and the other stores that we work with that are online, they have theirs but they’ve got fabulous product ranges curated to suit we’d their audience, and while they might be an overlap, it’s not the only sale of the Jellystone piece that will occur at that time, so more places to shop I don’t think necessarily cannibalizes the market, as some people have originally said.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah and look, maybe it did in the past, but it’s definitely not that way now. So long as you are quite strategic and creative with your marketing, you’re not not out there being aggressive and mercenary at all.

Claire Behrmann:

Exactly, yeah.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, yeah. So, good. So, maybe let’s change tack a little bit, and in your business journey to date, I’m sure you’ve had some interesting slash not so good results with things that you’ve tried. Have you got a story that you might be at a share and something that you may have learned that you could pass on?

Claire Behrmann:

There are so many, and there’s so many learning spots. I mean, I wouldn’t be here now if I hadn’t just made all these stuff ups along the way as well and quickly. I think that’s the biggest learning, to just dust off and keep going and just put it all behind you. Which, when we were starting overseas, we did our very first trade sale was actually in Las Vegas at the ABC show.

Catherine Langman:

Wow, that’s huge. You didn’t even do a local one first.

Claire Behrmann:

No, I was so naive with that, I just did not think about it too much about it, just fly over there and do it. We did the show, we did the regift there in Melbourne. That would be August, and the difference with Americans generally, they love talking. So it would usually matter how we designed the same because that was just up for a chat and Australians have a funny accent and they were really pleased. Like really happy to engage with us, but come to the Melbourne stand, Australian shoppers are completely different like the buyers and all these retailers just looked at our stand. It was a complete dog’s breakfast.

Claire Behrmann:

And so things were falling off the wall. I had a 10 page order form, which was a copied Excel spreadsheet and they obviously didn’t know how to navigate through it. I also at this time had a five second foray into doing a range of mail collections. [crosstalk 00:20:42].

Catherine Langman:

Oh wow.

Claire Behrmann:

Yeah, that was insane back then. I mean, it was not caught up, it was not well-suited to market. And we’d rushed to bring a product and I said with the new packaging that we’ve worked on, [inaudible 00:21:56] silly pain packaging, ancient can every often before we could get it to a race haler as well. We’d get the delivery of the product and the delivery of the packaging. And I mean the margin, it’s not like we’re selling 50 to let’s say this look, it was not at all. We go to all the orders that that we made at the trade show. We still distilled it all right. And then we’d go down supply chains working from me. So all hours,

Catherine Langman:

I learned the hard way that you need to get some systems in place.

Claire Behrmann:

Ah, yes. But I would always prefer to have it yesterday then next week. So, if that’s sort of the attitude sometimes you haven’t got those systems up and running. Much to the disappointment of my family who… I’ve taken over dining room tables and hallways with bits and pieces of everything.

Catherine Langman:

Oh, dear. Oh well, you jumped in with two feet and just ran with it and it may not have been the best result, but you learned heaps and you know, perhaps a bit of advice for the listeners there with your trade shows or expos. You have to think about not just the stand, but also how your customers are going to order from you cause a 10 page Excel spreadsheet just sounds awfully difficult.

Claire Behrmann:

It was terrible. Yeah. I mean, I understand now there’s such a science to it and what necessarily looks beautiful on a stand, may not actually engage someone’s eye and make them want to look at what you’ve got. So I think I tried to do something really pretty, but the reality is, that’s not how a person will come to your stand, what’s going to catch their eyes first, second, and third and how they’re going to move through and then what will they do?

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, that’s right. And then, having that strategy down to close the sale and get the order as well.

Claire Behrmann:

Yes.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah.

Claire Behrmann:

Without dropping pieces of paper all over the floor.

Catherine Langman:

That’s right. Oh, I can just imagine it. Oh my goodness. So on that note, maybe the next question that would be worth touching on is, have you got a piece of advice or two that you could give someone else who’s aspiring to build their own product-based business if they’re wanting to design and manufacture and build their own brand?

Claire Behrmann:

Yeah, sure. I guess just what we’ve been touching on with the merchandising and the product, I guess it’s one thing to have a fabulous product, but how you’re going to build that out and how will it be if it’s a store, how’s it going to be presented on the shelves? What’s going to make it so easy for that retailer to just get it up and sell through? Does it need to come with like a kind of display unit as well or what else? And I guess if it’s an online sale that you’re making, what’s going to make it so beautiful when a customer receives your products that they’re just so excited and loving it and telling all their friends about it as well.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah. Gosh, I love that. That’s such an awesome piece of advice there. That whole wow factor, and thinking about that just with your online stuff as well as in-store.

Claire Behrmann:

Yes. Yeah, I think it’s the whole package, and yeah, you can’t just have the great idea. It could be a fabulous, fabulous product, but it needs to get on a shelf, or it needs to transport easily in the mail and arrive looking fabulous as well. And I guess that works back with your website as well. It all has to come together and be really [inaudible 00:25:09] and share who you are and what you’re doing. One of the exciting things with having your own brand and I guess, this time it’s a bit reflective of the fact that you really need to keep options open. And when it is your own brand, you’ve got so many different ways you can be selling your products.

Claire Behrmann:

So I mean we were very heavily day-to-day with our retailers, but I think the more we sort of learned about different marketplaces, there’s opportunities to be seen. Whether it’s selling products internationally or to schools or there’s just so many different markets direct to the consumer, like we’ve been discussing. So, I guess if one of those areas stops or is drastically impacted at any one time, you’ve got an option to jump onto to another area as well. Which is all easy to say, I guess, in hindsight when we’re faced with these times. But I mean, that’s what gets me excited as well about what we have that there’s so many different places we could be sharing our products and [crosstalk 00:26:25] out to different markets who could be potentially interested in it as well.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, definitely. So having multiple buy buttons out there, I guess, is kind of like the digital marketing version of that. But it’s so true. You know, having all your eggs in one is quite a risky way to run a business, isn’t it?

Claire Behrmann:

Yeah, at anytime, I guess.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, I remember that when I started my first business, Facebook wasn’t really around yet. I’m sure it had been sort of in a dorm room at some point, but it wasn’t on the market yet. But you know, Google was king and SEO and Google ads were really the way people drove traffic. But what happened was that, I don’t even remember which year it was, but it was some fairly early in my business journey and this was a big learning experience for me, was Google had a really major update of their algorithm and it meant that so many people’s traffic just dropped off a cliff. So the traffic to their website just dropped off a cliff. And I’ve seen it happen since then again with Facebook as well when Facebook did come out and it was so good with organic content and people didn’t have to pay money for it and they could get all this wonderful traffic. And then of course, that algorithm changed as well. And any business that had… they were relying on just that one channel to get all of their sales was in a very bad way. So, I love that you are commenting about having all these different avenues for being able to get your products out there and build your brand and not necessarily rely on just one thing.

Claire Behrmann:

Yes. Think of it as a challenge. Not [inaudible 00:28:13], but they might flip the switch on Instagram and you have to pay all of a sudden for [inaudible 00:28:19] or anything like that, but where else could it go to?

Catherine Langman:

That’s right. Yeah. I love it. That’s awesome. So, for those people out there who would like to find out a little bit more about Jellystone, do you want, I’m going to share all of your links obviously on the podcast show notes, but just give you a shout out. What’s your web address and your social media handles for people who want to go and check you out?

Claire Behrmann:

Yeah. So, jellystonedesigns that’s the address, .com.au, on Facebook it’s just Jellystone Designs, and on Instagram, we are jellystone.designs.

Catherine Langman:

Fantastic.

Claire Behrmann:

And in this iso climate, please reach out to me, because I’ll probably be very lonely and wanting some sort of human interaction. So, feel free to drop us a line at any time.

Catherine Langman:

Yeah, it’s so much like that isn’t it? And we all have to rely on our digital communities and I’ve got my family Zoom catch up happening every week now and that sort of stuff. Got to keep the grandparents in the loop. Yeah, no I love that. And likewise, yeah. So just to, to finish off for the moment, I want to share that we have a Facebook group, which, I’m pretty sure you’re part of as well, Claire, the Rockstar Productpreneur Facebook group.

Catherine Langman:

So if you are feeling a little bit lonely working from home and having to stay home and you would like to network with some other product based business owners, please join us in the Rockstar Productpreneur Facebook group. I’ll give a link to that as well on the show notes. You can certainly join in and ask questions if you want to get some help on anything. We do some Facebook lives and we have a few experts who jump in as well, so there’s plenty of help as well as chatty conversation in the group.

Claire Behrmann:

Fabulous.

Catherine Langman:

So, thank you again for joining us. It’s been fantastic having a conversation with you today, Claire.

Claire Behrmann:

Thank you for having me.

Catherine Langman:

Awesome. All right, listeners, I look forward to joining you again for next week’s episode. Next week we’re actually going to have another guest on the show who is Lou, from Cake To The Rescue, and she’s going to be talking all about how to build a really engaged audience online, and she is the absolute queen of that, so you really don’t want to miss it. All right guys, I will catch you on the next episode. Bye for now.