Catherine Langman:
Well, hello there. Catherine Langman here, back with you for another episode of The Productpreneur Success Podcast. Today on the show, we’re going to be talking about branding and really why getting this piece of the puzzle right is so, so important to the success of your business.
Catherine Langman:
It honestly does not matter whether you are an e-commerce retailer, a brand selling your products online or in physical stores, or maybe you’re a local restaurant, or any other kind of business, your brand is going to be the first impression a potential customer forms when they interact with you the first time and of course, every time thereafter. They might be interacting with you the first time on social media, or on your website, or in a physical store, looking at your products sitting on somebody’s shop shelves.
Catherine Langman:
They could interact with you in numerous places, but hopefully it goes without saying, that you really do want to try and make the right kind of first impression, or at least one that you have intentionally thought out in advance and that you are… I guess, your potential customers are really forming the impression that you’re hoping to achieve. But also, you actually want to have the chance to make an impression on your customers, but if you don’t even stand out from the crowd at all, then of course, they’re not going to know that you exist and you don’t want to be the world’s best kept secret. Right?
Catherine Langman:
Now, to help me with this discussion today, I will be joined on the show by Tina and Britta, from the Lux Co., and they have a branding agency in Melbourne. We’re going to have a talk and they’re going to walk us through their process from initially developing your brand strategy, and then how to execute that through all of your brand visuals, and all of your words in your marketing, and everything else in between. They’re really, really detailed in everything that they share with us today, so it’s a really fantastic conversation. I think you’re going to love it.
Catherine Langman:
But before I kickstart with the interview today, I’d like to ask you a quick favour. If you do love this episode, would you share it with one or two of your business besties, especially if they are looking for help either with a new brand, or a rebrand, or I guess if they’re just kind of struggling to get traction with their business or their brand? So it’s super easy to share an episode. All you need to do is click on the icon next to the podcast on whichever platform that you’re listening to it on, copy and share the link, and then you can send it in a message to your friends. All right then, so let’s dive into the episode and welcome Tina and Britta to the show.
Catherine Langman:
Welcome to the show, Tina and Britta. it’s fantastic to have you both here.
Tina:
Thanks for having us. [inaudible 00:00:07].
Catherine Langman:
So good. Obviously your business is The Luxe Co, and I just would love to invite one or other of you, maybe just, I guess introduce yourselves and the business, and how did you get into this business in the first place? What’s that origin story of your business.
Tina:
You want to take that one, Britta?
Britta:
I can. So, I originally arrived from England on a backpacking, I guess a working holiday. And at the time, I had lived in London for a couple years working in magazines, and I was looking for a job. Back in the day when there was no internet, which makes us sound very old, but we are.
Britta:
I had to go to the newsagents, and a couple of the [inaudible 00:00:56] magazines, scrolled down until I found the addresses, who I was going to speak to, to get a job.
Catherine Langman:
Yes.
Britta:
And I think it was probably … I think she may have been the first or second person I rang, and she gave me an interview, and she was at the time, the art director at Dolly magazine.
Catherine Langman:
No way.
Britta:
Do you remember that?
Catherine Langman:
Yes.
Britta:
And so she gave me my first job. I think I was in the country, maybe three days and then I started working. So, that’s how we met.
Catherine Langman:
That’s hilarious.
Tina:
Yeah.
Catherine Langman:
That’s great. I love that story!
Tina:
Because she went backpacking, for the first, I don’t know, two months … She had this rotating wardrobe of like four items or something.
Britta:
As they do.
Catherine Langman:
How does that go down in a magazine?
Tina:
We had the fashion covered in those days, so … Yeah, we could borrow clothes from the fashion cupboard, which was awesome.
Britta:
In general, the Dolly wasn’t as, you didn’t need to wear high heels like you would obviously, if you worked at Cleo or Cosmo. It was more of a kind of sandals and thongs kind of place to work, or runners. So it wasn’t too bad, I managed to survive until my box got shipped over.
Catherine Langman:
I absolutely love that. So you two have known each other for many years, then, by the sounds of things.
Britta:
Yeah. Twenty something years, yeah.
Catherine Langman:
That’s brilliant.
Tina:
Yeah, that’s wild.
Catherine Langman:
And so, obviously you’ve worked together for a long time, but, when did that sort of evolve into starting the Lux Co and becoming business partners?
Tina:
That started about, around 8 years ago, I think. So basically, we kind of grew up at Dolly and went off and got married and had babies and went on maternity leave. And we both found after that, that it was a bit hard, we were taking on freelance clients and working for ourselves freelance. But it was … we were quite restricted by, in our growth in that situation, because we didn’t have any support around us.
Catherine Langman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tina:
So that was where Britta and I kind of worked out for each other and kind of struck a deal to back each other up, so that we could allow ourselves to take on bigger jobs, and they all had a bit of support to get them done. And that was where The Luxe Co was born. So I think, in its current situation as a company, I think we’re about seven years old or something.
Britta:
[inaudible 00:03:25], yeah.
Tina:
And then a bit before that, we were kind of backing each other up as a freelance situation. So it’s kind of just been ongoing working together, developing brand, like our whole careers.
Tina:
Because it’s only in hindsight, now that we’re developing brands from scratch, that we look back at our work at Dolly and other magazines and you realize where it all came from, that that was where we were developing and nurturing our brand in our day to day jobs. and that was where we’d learned so much of what we know today.
Catherine Langman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. So good. And so I guess, just to describe to our listeners, what is it that The Luxe Co actually does now? You know, the services that you offer, and who do you serve, all of that good stuff.
Britta:
We have two different, I guess, groups of clients. We have people who are completely from scratch, new brands, so they’re starting really with nothing and they’ve come to us, early days. And then we’ve got what we call our Brand Rehab, which is people that are leveling up. So they might be three to five years into their business, they’ve probably survived on a logo or something, maybe a friend has done it for them, or they’ve done it themselves, and they’ve got the, I guess the knowledge and the know-how to know they need to step it up one level or two to compete with everyone else in the same market. So they have a bit of time, they have probably a bit more money. So yeah, so those are kind of the key groups.
Britta:
And the subject that we work with is eCommerce, lifestyle brands, hospitality, beauty, all those kinds of ones, which really fit with our history of what we love and what we’re interested in, I guess.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, those sorts of product categories, you mean?
Britta:
Yeah.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Tina:
We do have people outside that, but generally, yeah. But it can be anything from a restaurant or a café to an earring brand, to a new beauty start-up.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. Love it.
Tina:
Yeah.
Tina:
Even clinics and salons and that kind of thing.
Tina:
I think it’s kind of, anything that speaks to lifestyle. So, going to the hair salon and having a brand experience there, or going to the department store and buying a lipstick, you know, going to a café and having a coffee with a girlfriend. What we’re all about is creating a brand experience within a business so that when that business’ customers come to them, it’s memorable and it makes them feel a certain way.
Catherine Langman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.
Britta:
I just, I guess your listeners would be relevant to eCommerce, brand work, it’s a brand experience from the minute you hop on your website to the last touchpoint, when you’re opening the packaging when it arrives, when it comes through the door, and what that feels like. What does it look like, what does it feel like, what does it smell like sometimes, you know, all that kinds [crosstalk 00:06:54]. A big immersive brand, that’s really important from like, you know what …
Catherine Langman:
And also the packaging as well. Like, once you start using the product, I guess I’m just thinking about, you know, skincare for instance or shampoo, or whatever. You’re using it on a potentially daily basis, so you’ve got every day, the opportunity to have that, provide that impression or that experience with the customer.
Tina:
Yeah, yeah.
Britta:
Yeah, so when it’s out of its context, that’s even more important. You know, so if it’s sitting on the shelf up in the bathroom. Does it drip? Does it open well? Does it close well? Can you fit it in your bag if you want to travel? All those kind of things that are all part of a brand experience that’s going to make people come back for more.
Catherine Langman:
Yes. Exactly. So I guess when we think about … I guess a lot of our listeners, yes they’re often eCommerce businesses, but they’re also often the brand owner as well, whether they’re distributing a brand or they’ve created and they’re manufacturing it. You know, there’s a little bit of a variety here of listeners. But when it comes to having that kind of, creating that impression with customers, why do you think the branding is so important for these sorts of businesses?
Tina:
The market?
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. How can we make it better?
Tina:
Look, I think, the market is just so crowded. Even before coronavirus and the pandemic, you know, the last three years happened, or last two years, even before that happened, the market was crowded. But now, since so many people were forced out of their jobs or … You know, a lot of people were forced out of their jobs because businesses had to make cutbacks. So there became a lot of people that were forced to become unemployed. And a lot of those people then went, you know what? This is an opportunity, I’m going to start my own thing. I’ve had this idea for a little while now.
Tina:
And then there’s also a big proportion of people who have had a taste of working from home and the independence and the freedom that working from home on your own schedule can bring. Gives you more time with your family, you know, it’s just less stressful, you don’t have to catch trains, you’re living on your own timetable rather than the RTAs, you know? And it’s a really appealing thing. So then there’s those people as well, I think, that out of this whole experience have gone, hang on a minute, now could be a really good time to start something.
Tina:
So, before, there were a lot of brands before, or a lot of businesses trying to be noticed in this sea of businesses, there’s even more now. Without assigning that business with a personality and something that people can relate to and hold on to and will remember, there’s really not a lot of hope for standing out in the crowd.
Tina:
All of those things that Britta mentioned, like, when you’re selling online and your product just turns up in like a craft box with no branding on it, just in a standard mailer bag and, a bit tatty and a bit average and it doesn’t really say much, versus another brand that’s really well put together and has lots of branded items and offers a real brand experience. So if you think of the brands like Go-To Skincare, they’re, you can get them in Mecca now. But they started out as just an eCommerce brand.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. Direct to consumer, wasn’t it?
Tina:
Yeah it was. And it was all the voices [inaudible 00:11:03] that really got that brand’s attraction that it got. I just love that brand. From the first time I bought something from them, every email, every interaction makes you smile or laughs or feel good or …
Catherine Langman:
Yeah it has a great personality, that brand, definitely. I agree.
Tina:
So much personality. And it’s such a stand out because of that, and that’s why it’s done so well and that’s why she got to sell it for …
Catherine Langman:
Squillions.
Tina:
I can’t remember [crosstalk 00:11:37], it was like $39 billion or some ridiculous amount of money.
Catherine Langman:
It was yeah, squillions. Such a great story.
Tina:
[crosstalk 00:11:44]
Tina:
And now it’s in Mecca and that brand has just done so well, and it’s got sub brands now, and, you know, crazy.
Catherine Langman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tina:
So I mean, she had a leg up because she already a profile, and a husband and all of that jazz. But it is, at the end of the day, that’s a really big difference between a brand and a business selling a product.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Britta:
I think it comes down to trusting that brand, as well. So I think that’s what branding is giving you, is give your business that trust factor. We always say like, when you’re at the top three, you know, reasons after price and quality, comes down to trust. Like it’s that, the message that you can really portray.
Catherine Langman:
And helping people to realize that it’s for them. Because like, you know, if you think about a product category, say skincare for instance, I mean, one type of skincare is not going to suit every type of customer. So how we can pitch it at the right audience so that they know it’s for them?
Britta:
Yeah.
Britta:
They give you the confidence I think to present your business as the better choice, whatever that looks like.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Britta:
So they, it’s kind of a different, we always say between the strategist side of branding and then the identity. Because like the real, nitty gritty stuff underneath your brand, what does it stand for. And the strategic and tactical part of that. Like, where are you going to buy stuff? How are you going to talk to them, in what kind of voice? You know, how can you find out what their problems are and make sure you’re communicating and solving them.
Britta:
The identity is all the fun pretty stuff that, you know, things [inaudible 00:13:40] I guess? You need both. And I think that when you’re talking about what’s successful and what’s not successful, is that the least successful I guess, brand experience is kind of inconsistent, it might just be some parts of a brand but not enough of the whole story, you know, like someone who’s just got a logo or has just has a color palette and a logo and that’s it. They don’t have the stuff to give the sellers enough confidence to know like, what am I doing with this? How do I talk to people, where do I find them? All that kind of stuff.
Catherine Langman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tina:
Yeah. And it sounds like such an overwhelming thing to have to put together, but, you know, Britta and I were chatting about this the other day, knowing that we were coming to talk to you. Something that I put to Britta is like, you kind of almost want your customers to think of your brand as a friend.
Tina:
So, think back to when you were in high school and you had your best friend, and you go around to her house and knock on the door, you knew who you were going to get. She was always the same. She was always your friend. Now, if every time you knocked on the door she was different or behaved differently or spoke in a different accent or you know, like, there wasn’t that consistency, you wouldn’t feel connected to her like you do as your best friend, because she’s always the same. She’s that one that you can rely on, you feel close to her. And brand is exactly the same as that. It’s defining a personality and an identity and that’s why it’s called a brand identity. It’s assigning a personality to a business so that people can connect and engage and feel emotionally connected to you.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. I reckon-
Tina:
[crosstalk 00:15:35] customer loyalty aspect.
Catherine Langman:
I reckon a great example of that would be the Who Gives a Crap toilet paper brand, which, no doubt, has gone completely nuts with COVID.
Tina:
Yeah.
Catherine Langman:
But you know, they’ve got that cheeky sense of humor that they deploy everywhere. Everywhere you interact with that brand, even when it’s like the empty toilet roll tube at the end. It’s absolutely brilliant. Yeah.
Catherine Langman:
Because I think-
Tina:
And they’ve got like that other stuff too. They’re pretty to look at. They’re reliable, because even in a pandemic where there’s no toilet paper on the shelves in the supermarket, you can jump on their website and order it and it will be here like in two days. And they’ve always got stock. So they’re reliable. It’s exactly the same.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Britta:
I’ve actually looked at the ideal customer and gone, well, you know, there’ll be like the aesthetics as well. It’s got to look really good. Not only does it have to have really great value behind it, because that’s what the [inaudible 00:16:38], but it needs to look good in the basket too. So there’s obviously-
Catherine Langman:
That’s right
Britta:
… finding all different patterns. So they’ve done their research to all the things that the customer’s going to want.
Britta:
Because you could easily wrap a bunch of, send a bunch of toilet paper with no packaging, right? It wouldn’t be the same experience, and no brand voice.
Britta:
On that personality thing, we always talk about social media as well. Because quite often, we do actually manage quite a few social media accounts and we viewed the visuals and the copy. And it’s interesting trying to just change from one person’s managing it to the next person and keeping that brand voice really consistent.
Britta:
That is like, you know, Rebecca, talking to somebody at a party, just getting to know them, and then they walk off and then they come back and they’re Karen with the confetti. And you’re like, hang on, wasn’t I talking to someone else before? And that’s kind of how it feels.
Catherine Langman:
Yes.
Britta:
So again, it’s that same thing, that, you have to know who you’re talking to and trust that it’s the same person.
Tina:
Yeah.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. I agree.
Catherine Langman:
So when you think about all of the different clients that you have worked with recently, maybe we can … Can we kind of pull out an example project perhaps, maybe? Or two, because you said there’s two different types of packages that you’ll typically, or projects that you’ll typically work through. So somebody who is brand new versus someone who is perhaps upgrading from something that they’ve been using.
Catherine Langman:
Let’s talk through a case study just to give listeners a bit more of an idea of how this project might go for them. Because I think, and I don’t know about you, whether you agree with this, but I observe a lot of people who, they have a pretty good idea of what they want to convey, but they have zero idea about how to actually go about doing that.
Tina:
Yeah.
Tina:
So … you want to talk about Soma, Britta?
Britta:
Yeah. So … we have a beautiful cacao brand, she went away on holiday and was in Mexico, and she just loved the history behind cacao and what it does for you. So she has a brand from, so a [inaudible 00:19:08] from Mexico and one from Australia as well. So she spent the last … We started off with just talking about the real history behind it, and it was really important to convey that. So the packaging that we actually designed, actually originated from this really old symbol, where is it from Tina, do you know?
Tina:
It was Aztec.
Britta:
Yeah.
Tina:
Yeah it’s from the [inaudible 00:19:37].
Britta:
Yeah, it’s a little cacao man, and we expanded in that into kind of more like an abstract pattern. Anyway, so she went ahead. She did it quite small, because … So she started off with just like, stickers and we put it on brown craft bags and she expected those figures to last her four months. And I think within a month she put in a new order.
Tina:
Wow.
Britta:
And in a couple of months, yeah, she came back asking me to get a whole new bag range for her which were a lot less labor intensive for her. So it was a little bit more expensive, but she was able to grow that much in that short amount of time by just changing her packaging and the way she was selling her [inaudible 00:20:20], and understanding who she was talking to to. And she had some supply problems. So she’s had to make a snap decision to take on two more orders.
Britta:
And she now has four different origins of cacao. It’s pretty cool.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Britta:
And not only that, but the importance I guess, of imagery as well. So we did a spreadsheet for her. So we styled and worked with [inaudible 00:20:40] on that. And she saw 183 percent increase in September, just from changing her geography on her website.
Britta:
That’s like …
Tina:
In that month.
Britta:
Yeah. That’s just …
Catherine Langman:
That’s pretty immediate.
Britta:
Yeah. So she went from worrying about her marketing and how they were going to sell it, to having to cut her advertising spend and trying to figure where they were going to find all the stock they needed.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, that’s a cool problem to have.
Britta:
Fill the orders. So yeah, that’s a pretty good example of how we can really transform your business I guess, like just the …
Catherine Langman:
So how did you help her walk through, deciding what kind of, say, personality for the brand that she wanted to convey and then turning that into actual visual assets and language?
Tina:
Yeah. Well when we sign up a new client, for all new clients, we do a strategy session with them at the beginning of their project. We get onto a call, like this, and we all sit around and chew the fat and talk about their brand and where they came from and what they want to do, and who’s buying it and who’s not buying it. Lots and lots of questions. And we really dig down to find, you know, the key problem that their clients have that they’re solving.
Tina:
So then we create a huge strategy document from that which is, like in some cases it can be up to 60 pages long. It’s an enormous meaty document. That outlines all of the stuff about their voice and their values and you know, all of the things that make their business what it is. And it’s there in black and white.
Tina:
And we find so many of our clients, when they get that document, they tend to [inaudible 00:22:43] emails that they just can’t believe it says all the things that they’ve been thinking that they didn’t realize that they knew. It’s kind of just telling all of the stuff in them, I think, like we touched on before. The kind of “know”, that they don’t know what to do with it. And in this session we pull all of that out of them and just fill it in to this format that they can really easily understand. And the document explains the importance of everything and how it’s all connected. And how that then filters through to impacting what their brand looks like.
Tina:
So the other thing to know about us is that we’re a once concept studio, which means that we don’t … You know, some studios when you work with them, they’ll kind of divine three different logos and present you with all these options. So we don’t work like that, we only ever deliver a single concept. We really believe in our hearts that once we’ve done the work at the beginning, in that strategy session and putting together that strategy document, that that has all the right answer in it and tells you what the brand needs to look like.
Tina:
So it’s not about us coming up with some idea, it’s kind of we’re led there by the facts. So it becomes a bit more of a scientific process.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. Sounds like part science.
Tina:
[crosstalk 00:24:17]
Tina:
Yeah, exactly. And I think that gives the client so much more confidence too, in what they come away with. And they get really invigorated and like fired up. They go away with this whole renewed energy about what they’re doing. It’s like giving them zest for life again. It’s amazing.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. Getting their mojo back.
Catherine Langman:
I imagine it would be quite similar then, if you’ve got somebody who’s maybe, a couple of years in and they might have got their original logo, like you said, from a friend or off Fiverr or something along those lines. It sounds like it would probably be a pretty similar scenario in terms of working through that whole strategy from the start.
Britta:
Yeah. It is. It’s just slightly different in the fact that we’re moving them, rather than a launch, it’s moving them … We want to know … It’s a tactical move. So where you are now, and where you want to go. But often that is a business goal, or a [inaudible 00:25:22] directory or a new product range. It’s always a bit of a swivel. So it’s our job to make sure that we can get them from A to B.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Britta:
So the kinds of things they’re doing could be really awesome, and some of it needs a tweak, or it all might need a complete overhaul. And sometimes that’s not … Sometimes we might work … We’ve worked with … a company we worked with called Pelican Roost. So we’ve literally tweaked the logo, but they’re just much more about, how would you … like there’s a lot of business strategy. Like how do you make things flow better? How do you get from being 9/4 … they were known very much for selling industrial coffee machines and they wanted to move into selling domestic machines and domestic products like coffee beans and stuff like that. So how do we move your business and pivot it? And so they know, we’re also developing a website with them and their user experience. And that was quite complicated, because it was like, people knew them for one thing. They want now to be known for something else, plus have like brands to sell online in both funnels, I guess.
Britta:
And they were all dealing with that in the back end of their business too. So we’re not only interested in just, you know, simplifying things. It’s like making things smoother and how things can run better and how all the marketing funnels feed into to business. So we really love [inaudible 00:26:49] the strategy stuff, and then we can make things …
Britta:
So then we did the coffee bags for them, and then we did the tea canisters, all that kind of stuff. But it all came from a place of like, we’re moving here from A to B.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Britta:
So yeah, it’s like one or the other. So you’ve got launching or positioning.
Catherine Langman:
Repositioning or redirecting. Yeah.
Britta:
Yeah.
Tina:
Yeah you’re right.
Tina:
Yeah exactly.
Catherine Langman:
I remember, I reckon it must have been early in my marketing career, it would have been when the Commonwealth Bank rebranding happened.
Tina:
Oh.
Catherine Langman:
Do you remember when that-
Tina:
[inaudible 00:27:20]
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, that insane price to rebrand the Commonwealth Bank, which of course, it probably really didn’t change that much in the aesthetic of it, but yeah. Millions of dollars, that one.
Tina:
Yeah I know. I wish someone would come up with, pay us that much to come up with a square with a chip taken out of it.
Britta:
[crosstalk 00:27:44] We’re happy to work for that amount of money, for sure.
Tina:
Pepsi are notorious for rebranding too. They’ve gone through so many, like multi multi million dollar rebrand that … it’s quite laughabl.e
Catherine Langman:
Who was that, sorry?
Britta:
[crosstalk 00:27:54] Pepsi.
Catherine Langman:
Oh of course. Yeah.
Tina:
Pepsi.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, absolutely.
Britta:
It’s kind of interesting. I don’t really personally understand their brand very well. Apart from their kind of … To me they’ve always just been number two in the market to Coke.
Catherine Langman:
That’s it.
Britta:
And I don’t know them enough. So I don’t, yeah. It’s interesting. I can’t think …
Tina:
Yeah, when you think about their most memorable campaign, was the Pepsi challenge. Which was all about them trying to prove that they weren’t second to Coke. Which kind of almost reinforced that they were second to Coke.
Catherine Langman:
Yes.
Britta:
Yeah.
Catherine Langman:
I wonder if they will listen to this.
Britta:
Sometimes I think a really fun thing to do is actually play on your weaknesses. They probably would have been better to do that than try and compete, if you know what I mean.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. The underdog. Like, you know, that’s the spot lots of Aussies idolize. Yeah.
Tina:
Yeah.
Catherine Langman:
What are some of the things that perhaps, your earlier stage businesses or brands are really getting wrong? Like in terms of thinking about, branding their start up or rebranding their business, what are the biggest mistakes that people are making?
Tina:
Look, to me the biggest mistake any business can make is underestimating the power of branding. Because, obviously I’m going to say that because I’m a brands person, right? But honestly I see these people, like we’re in a lot of Facebook groups of new business start-ups and businesswomen that are all talking to each other about their looking for help with this or that. And the thing that I see so many of them doing is, they invest so much of their time and energy into this idea, and it could take them years trying to develop a product from scratch and trying to find manufacturers and distributors and getting it here and the pricing, and all of these things. And then when it comes to branding, they put out a post on social media saying, I’m looking for someone to help me make a logo. I don’t have much money, I can only pay $200. Or …
Catherine Langman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yes.
Tina:
And it just breaks my heart, because it’s one of the most important things. When you think about, I’m sure everybody can relate to, at some point in their lives, being sucked in by a brand and buying a product that they were disappointed by, but they bought it because it made them feel something and they were connected to it and they bought it because they … You know, they bought into that idea of something. And when they got it home that was disappointing.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. May not have been what they ultimately thought. I guess, well there’s that whole-
Tina:
Exactly.
Catherine Langman:
There’s that whole saying, isn’t there? That if the best product was always the best selling product, then McDonald would not be the best selling burger in the world.
Tina:
That’s very true.
Catherine Langman:
But you know-
Tina:
I just don’t understand why people can underestimate brands so much, when there’s examples of that like, so readily available, where there’s rubbish things that are selling really well because they look great and they have an image.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. It’s true. Like I would concur from my own experience, with my first business, my modern cloth nappy brand. And this was a situation, I recall, was just so distinct I can remember the sales results changing on a dime, after we had professional photography taken and I’m fortunate enough to actually have a sister who is a professional graphic designer. So the rest of the branding had been done, but not the beautiful photography, the lifestyle photography. And when we took that step and invested in that, you know, it just took off. It was like a launching pad. It is super duper-
Tina:
Yeah. It’s amazing, isn’t it?
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Britta:
The other big mistake people make is making it about themselves and not about the problems they’re solving. So often you find a website and people will go on about-
Catherine Langman:
Talking about themselves?
Britta:
About their story and like why they did-
Tina:
Tell her the story about the restaurant, Britta.
Britta:
Oh yeah. I was trying to book a table at a Mexican restaurant down the road on their website. And they talk about how the chef always wanted to have this business and how he went to Mexico and he loved the cuisine and now he’s here … And I was just like, I just want to book a table.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Britta:
I could not find a button on there to make a booking or a phone number to make a booking. You’ve got to remember, it’s not about you. It’s about what problems you’re solving for the customer. And my problem was, I wanted to eat Mexican food but could I actually book a table? No. Because I was seeing just … sold to, in the totally wrong way.
Catherine Langman:
And probably they didn’t want to feel like they were being too salesy, or something like that. I hear that a lot.
Britta:
Yeah, but I think it’s always the case on websites, particularly. What do you do and who do you do it for, and what action do you want someone to take? That’s pretty much the, you know, and I think everything about your website is the vehicle for people to take action, and is that the way you want them to take action? So it’s like, how do you … just make that as easy as possible.
Catherine Langman:
For the right people to take that action.
Britta:
[crosstalk 00:33:55] Yeah.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah exactly.
Britta:
You confused your … And that sort of plays into that whole thing about people turning up to like … Quite often we hear, oh I really think I would like this kind … Like I’d really love a pink logo with watercolor. And it’s like, but it’s not about you. It’s not about what you want. It’s about what you need to effectively communicate how you solve people’s problems. That’s what it’s all about.
Britta:
And also, the other thing is amplifying your unique selling point. Because, going right back to the start of our conversation, there’s so many things on the market, you have to be able to confidently communicate-
Tina:
[inaudible 00:34:37] yourself.
Britta:
What makes you different to every other business out there?
Catherine Langman:
100 percent.
Britta:
I think that’s the other thing. So that’s a really good reason to do branding, if only to find an answer like that as well. Like if you did good [inaudible 00:34:51] you can find that. Yeah. And that in turn, then starts to build your business assets as well. So your business becomes worth more, because you understand it, you’re communicating the right things, and then hopefully [inaudible 00:35:08].
Catherine Langman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Definitely, definitely. That story about the restaurant is really good lead in to the question of, what are some of the differences between good branding and bad branding, and I guess you’ve talked about some of the reasons and facts and stats there, but in terms of what people might see or not see, like visually, what would be some of the differences there, that you see a lot of?
Tina:
Yeah. I think there isn’t really any bad branding. It’s just, there’s good branding and then there’s not branded.
Catherine Langman:
That’s a good way to put it.
Britta:
So not being branded is kind of like thinking in part. So like we were talking about, just got a logo, or just got our logo and color palette, but there’s no strategy behind it. So good branding will give you tactics and plans of what you’re supposed to be doing and looking at your competitor analysis and your value proposition, and all those kind of things. You’ve got some real let’s talk about, you know, as in, you’ve got things to actually work with, so that when you go, oh, I need to do this marketing, you know what you’re going to do. You can’t do marketing without brands, but you can do a brand without marketing.
Tina:
Oh. Yeah.
Tina:
Sorry I had no idea where you were going there.
Britta:
So you need the foundations to be able to know what you’re going to talk about.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. Well that’s a good point, because a lot start-ups, they do struggle to know what to talk about. So that’s probably a good indication …
Tina:
If you’ve got good branding, there isn’t … Yeah, if you’ve got good branding there’s plenty to talk about, because you know what your values are, you know what’s important to you brand identity and your brand personality. So for example, I’m working on a brand at the moment, and two of her pillars … Usually they have four. Two of her pillars or values are sustainability and philanthropy. Now, that gives so much to talk about. Like, how she’s helping her local community to become more self sustainable. Like there’s, it gives you so much fodder for content and ideas for how you can market a business when you know what your values are.
Tina:
If you don’t know what direction to go in, that means that you haven’t done your foundations. Because your brand will tell you exactly what you need to do.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. Love that. That’s a great answer.
Britta:
We had a client came to us with a … Like, she was selling a perfume, basically, in Vanuatu. So it’s like, that’s … And we really dug deep. In fact, when you look at her story, she loves, she literally will go with the chief of the villages to forage for new ingredients, things like that.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Tina:
There’s probably botanicals in the islands that are native to the islands that nobody’s even … Like there’s no documentation of them, and they’ve got these incredible scents that she’s putting into perfumes, and she’s a philanthropist, so the whole mission behind her business is to help these farmers to create crops that they make and sell and build the agriculture on the island so that they’re more self sufficient.
Catherine Langman:
What a beautiful story.
Tina:
Because at the moment … Yeah it’s amazing. And at the moment, they rely so heavily on tourism, and you can imagine what the last two years has done to the tourism in the Pacific Islands.
Catherine Langman:
Decimated.
Tina:
Decimated. Like it set them back something like ten years.
Tina:
So any work that she does to help these people establish agriculture businesses, that then they can start exporting things that are native to their own local economy, that’s gold dust. That’s like giving a man a fish and then teaching him how to fish.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. What a beautiful story to build a brand on, I love that.
Tina:
Yeah.
Britta:
I think that’s the most successful brands that we’ve worked with is the people that have that really … And it doesn’t have to be that amazing. That’s a pretty amazing story, but-
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. Not everyone’s going to have, yeah, that impact going-
Britta:
But it’s pulling out what that story is. What is that story that’s going to connect your brand to other humans that are going to resonate with it?
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, yeah. I guess on the flip side of that story, share a horror story with us. So if we think about perhaps an eCommerce brand or a physical product brand, what’s an example of ones that you’ve seen that’s pretty woeful?
Britta:
We talked to you a little bit about this question. And we talked around the fact that quite a lot of those people that have those disasters, you don’t even … [inaudible 00:40:25]. They have what I call a Teflon brand. They’ve just like, slipped out of the radar, or they’ve crashed and burned before they even started. But most people that you’re familiar with, as being a brand, kind of got it right, it goes back to a bit like, well, you’re branded or you’re not branded. It’s like they most probably slipped out of our consciousnesses.
Britta:
But I think yeah, I think the worst thing you can do is sit there and launch brand and not have done any foundation as far as building a list or having some sort of ingoing and sitting there waiting for customers, and there’s just crickets.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Tina:
Yeah. Especially at the moment. I couldn’t post up on Instagram about this one, like the hackers seem to be ripe at the moment on Instagram. And friends of ours have got a business … I think she had 46,000 followers, and her account was hacked, and they changed the password so she can’t get into it. And she’s lost her account. And she’s back to 400. So if you haven’t … if you build a following on someone else’s platform, you’re leaving yourself wide open for things like that to happen.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, gosh. You just made me feel a little bit sick in the back of my throat. But I 100 percent agree.
Tina:
Yeah. She’s been building that for years and years and years. And I haven’t spoken to her about it, but I know she’s lost her account. But I don’t know if she’s got everybody on a list as well, or … I’m sure she hasn’t got all 46,000 of them on the list.
Catherine Langman:
No.
Britta:
The one thing we always encourage all our clients to do is start that list building process.
Tina:
Yeah.
Britta:
However that is, so that you own those email addresses.
Tina:
Yeah. [crosstalk 00:42:26]
Catherine Langman:
All my listeners would be very familiar with that message, I feel sure.
Tina:
Yeah. You just can’t plead enough, can you? Because it doesn’t seem to get through to people, they just think, oh it’s okay I’ve got to get my [inaudible 00:42:38] anyway.
Catherine Langman:
Oh well, it’s on Tik Tok now apparently.
Tina:
Oh … Tik Tok, yeah.
Tina:
But you don’t own that. Like it’s great to be on there and yes, do it, do it, and put all your heart and soul into it, but make sure you’re doing the other thing that you do own. Because you lose the thing you don’t own, which you very well could do. You’ve got a backup. Like you’ve got all that information, you’ve mined all the information you need to still be able to connect and reach other people.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. Yeah.
Britta:
I guess another example is more people who are looking at that rebrand space. People who don’t get it in time. Like, taxis are coming back now. But like that’s a really great example of you know, where Uber just came straight over the top of them, because they didn’t pivot their offering quickly enough. And they didn’t ask for any of those pain points, like, you know, where is my car, what time is it getting here, how much is it going to cost me? Like even that is the main pain point. Like, you never knew when you got in a cab, how much it was going to cost you by the time you got out the other end.
Catherine Langman:
Exactly.
Britta:
Uber as a brand just came straight over that. And yeah, another one, Blockbuster. That was-
Catherine Langman:
Kodak as well.
Britta:
Yeah, Kodak. I think those brands you know, where a new, more innovative company worked over the top of them, and seeing that gap in the market, and it’s all about that pain point. Solving the customer’s problems. If you’re not, somebody else will.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
Catherine Langman:
So I guess, one final question for you just kind of leading on from that. Is there anything that should be, I guess, like a siren to a brand owner that is like, this is what you need to look out for, that really means you need to start looking at this now? Don’t delay it any more. That’s a curve ball for you. I didn’t have that on the list.
Tina:
[crosstalk 00:44:46]
Tina:
Look, I think, at the risk of overwhelming people, there isn’t one answer to that. I think it’s everything. Like if you want a successful brand, there’s no golden goose recipe for making it succeed. It’s about doing all the things well. So you’ve got to have a great name, and you’ve got to have your brand foundations built correctly. And you’ve got to have like a really well developed identity and you’ve got to do your marketing right, and you’ve got to be doing all those things like we’ve just talked about, about don’t just rely on Instagram or Tik Tok, because you don’t own those platforms. So make sure that you’re talking to your audience in a place where you can always get back to them again, where the rug’s not going to be pulled out from under you.
Tina:
And I think it’s about doing all the little things. You know, I like to listen to Greta Van Riel from Soundr. She has started multiple multi multi million dollar businesses. And the thing that she says that stands out is that you don’t need the next like, innovative thing. It really can be something that already exists, but just do it differently. Do it better. And then brand it properly, market it well, and like, that’s your recipe for success. It’s not about coming up with the thing that nobody’s thought of yet. It’s just about doing all the little things really well and that all comes together as the golden goose.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah. Thank you for that. That was a really nice way to round out that conversation. I want to invite you to just quickly share, where can our listeners find you guys if they are looking to get some help with their brand strategy, rebranding, creating a new brand, all the good stuff. Where can they find you?
Tina:
They can find us at our website, which is theluxeco.com.au. We’re on Instagram, we’re on Tik Tok, we’re on Facebook. We’re everywhere.
Catherine Langman:
And on email, no doubt.
Tina:
And by email, yes. You can email us. You can email us, of course, hello@theluxeco, you’ll get us, .com.au. And yeah, we like to Zoom our clients before we work with them and just have a chat and a meeting and make sure that we’re all on the same page and … Yeah. It’s great to meet people, when you kind of feel like you know who you’re talking to. It can be a bit anonymous, the internet.
Catherine Langman:
It can be.
Tina:
So you know, [inaudible 00:47:53] that meeting idea. So yeah, we’d like to have a chat with anyone that’s thinking about rebranding or starting something new. We’re complete brand nerds. We get so excited and passionate about this stuff. So we’d love to hear about what you’re doing.
Britta:
That’s the other thing we love to do, is nurture those relationships. We have so many repeat customers, as far as, we keep people with us, because we like to be part of their family. And once they’re passionate and in there with their brand, we like to continue that and be their go-to people. You can probably tell we’re not just all about … We don’t just stick to one project. We enjoy that business journey as well. Like we do it ourselves so we really like to nurture people. We’re good hand holders.
Catherine Langman:
And look, honestly, that’s one of the reasons I was keen to get you guys on the show. For listeners, I just want to let you know, I think these two ladies do really really beautiful work, so definitely want to put my support behind you there.
Tina:
Thank you.
Catherine Langman:
So we’ll share all of this on our podcast show notes page as well, so listeners can come and find you easily.
Tina:
Amazing. Thank you so much for having us, Cath. It was so nice to talk to you.
Catherine Langman:
Yeah.
Britta:
Thank you so much.
Catherine Langman:
Thanks for being on the show, it’s been great to have you here.